Hellwig FX Frame Kit installation experience?

[pagrunt]

Heck, asking Hoppo’s to piece out this kit would be better worth your time:

82-86 G-Body Complete Reinforcement Kit

HopposOnline Vehicle Hydraulics and Air Suspension

www.hopposonline.com

And for anyone interested in that, I’ve asked, they will. At least for the inner plates that follow the rear back half from the lower control arm mounts to the spring pockets.

Don't forget the disclaimer that "This Kit Fits Only 82-86 G-Body FRAME". Surprised it didn't list "don't fit Cutlass Supreme."

 

[WyoGN]

no anger here....sorry. The helwig kit reduces torsional flex because it doubles the width of the original frame as well as "boxes'' it. It stiffens the original frame just like GM did with the convertibles. and el caminos.....do it....or don't ....but to say "it isn't going to benefit" is where the proof is needed....again convertibles and el caminos have the same design...not just boxed....from the factory for a reason

 

[SS_Malibu]

So I stand behind my thought of everyone does what they want to their ride. It's theirs. The original post was asking for help with a Helwig frame kit. I do understand that there are a lot of facts (and opinions) here on this forum which gives one pause for thought that they made not have considered (which I learned a few things) However, everyone here does what they think is best for their vehicle. Whether boxing the frame, adding frame stiffeners, a Helwig kit or any combination of the above or nothing at all, ultimately it's theirs to do what they wish.

We've all been to car shows and thought WOW, did they really do that to their car. And that's said in both a good way and a bad way. But it theirs. Just try to keep in mind, the help one is asking for may not be the help you would ask for.

Just my 25 cent spiel.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Something to remember is that strength and ridigity are two seperate attributes which create a quadrant. I see the two being conflated here.

G bodies were mainly designed to be soft, cushy granny cars, not performance cars. The frames were designed to flex to provide a soft ride. In fact GM even omitted body bushings on some models to tune the ride more torwards comfort. Tubes including box beams resist twisting better than C channels which when placed under load not only wants to sag but also twist and bow outboard away from the open side. A box beam just beats a C channel in most regards.


As I posted before, there are dangers to boxing a frame that was never designed for it and not knowing what you are doing. I know of one MCSS owner who boxed his frame himself and warped it so that the mid rails bowed outward to the point that the middle body mounts no longer aligned with the frame holes. To be clear, a jig won't prevent heat warpage but it provides an accurate refference point to measure the amount and placement of warpage so it can be fixed. Without a jig, you are working blind. Besides that, if you box the frame while its flexed out of position you lock it into that distortation and will be much harder to fix than the stock open channel. Your frame needs to be perfict before its boxed.


Frankly, I would never buy a G body with a frame boxed by the PO. Too much risk that its botched by Bubba. Goes double for frame notching.

 

[WyoGN]

the soft cushy gbody couldn't have been said better. The helwig frame kit is GM engineering. Just like the convertible frames of a 68-72 abody....but 2 more body mounts. People today can't wait to bash a product, even when they have zero experience with said product. IF there were unsatisfied purchasers, you couldn't shut them up.....where are they? Adding the missing body mounts and adding 2 more you would think cushy is not what they are after, especially when doubling or even tripling the HP over stock. I apologized for poking fun. Sorry again. I won't comment further.

 

[Tony1968]

There are many good points made here. Most are valid. But let me say for those believing that 'major' warping will occur..
.. mine didn't. And honestly these frames definitely were not made perfectly. After 40 plus years they are all probably out of spec. However that doesn't mean that boxing wouldn't help. Any time you strengthen the chassis you enable the suspension to work properly.
And I've seen guys get bowing out of center frames and all it required was a ratchet strap to pull together and bolt on the body. Is this perfect? No. So if you want perfection call the Roadster shop or Art Morrison and plan on spending an extra 25 grand. It all comes down to your best decision, application, and dollars. There shouldn't be any arguments. Just do what you wish.

 

[jdperk]

Well, well, I didn't mean to start a knowledge competition about Hellwig Frame FX kit. I appreciate all of the post as I read them all. Hot Rods were first built by kids trying to make their cars lighter and faster. Along the way they learned from each other and the automotive aftermarket was born. That other Hoppo's frame kit is something I didn't know about before I settled on the Hellwig kit. Hoppo's kit is a lot of metal welded on top of the frame no different than the Hellwig kit. I don't have a frame jig nor do I want to make one nor do I want to pay big bucks for someone else to install the kit too expensive. Over the years I have paid good money for others to do the work incorrectly where I would have been better off doing the repair myself. Finding a good shop with knowledgeable people is hard and when you do you have to pay for that knowledge and experience, as well you should.

So here is what I have learned with everyone's input.
- Others have installed the Hellwig kit with success and little warping by bracing the center section by welding across the two sides to hold it in place.
- Slow 1 inch welds and possible cooling with air will help control warping.
- Measure, measure, and measure to know the frame is not moving (too much).

I know this Hellwig kit is not made for my El Camino since the frame is longer. I will modify the kit to make it work. I will probably remake the pieces longer so I don't have another joint. Boxing the frame to make it ridged should help taking corners and aid the swaybars to be more effective, well that is my thought process. I will use weld through primer between metals and inside the C channel prior to welding. I will probably use Eastwoods frame paint to paint inside the frame.

I bought this 1986 El Camino new in 1986 a single owner. I have installed a 2000 5.7L aluminum LS1 with 4l60E transmission back in 2005. I intend to freshen up the motor with a new cam, LS6 intake, and maybe headers if I can find some that fit the El Camino with a column shifter. The LS1 swap is fun to drive.

I will start a new build thread with pictures and measurements when I get started.

Thank you for all the input.

 

[jdperk]

Oh yeah as to the not a great welder…. As I was told as long as you have good penetration the welds will look great after you grind them. Seriously though I’m new to it.. bought a Eastwood mig and a plasma cutter and locked myself in my garage it all came out alright… at least that what I’m telling myself.

I would like to get a plasma cutter. What is your opinion of the Eastwood plasma cutter and which one did you purchase the 20,40, or 60?

 

[jdperk]

Here is a picture

Do you have pictures of the top side of the frame. There is a long piece about 6" with a hole in each end, does it go in place of the transmission mount holes? Does it go inside or on top the Hellwig kit?

 

[john87442]

I would like to get a plasma cutter. What is your opinion of the Eastwood plasma cutter and which one did you purchase the 20,40, or 60?

I like my Eastwood plasma cutter 60. Works great and their customer service is always great. Also have Eastwood mig welder just as happy with that.