I'd like your opinions on this, please...

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87Cutlass442

Apprentice
Oct 22, 2008
69
0
0
Indianapolis
85 Cutlass Brougham said:
IMO, function> Form. That being said, I hate the lifted/big wheel look. I also don't really like drag skinnys, or a drag car look either, but find it more tolerable since it serves a purpose on some cars. If it were my car ( you asked for opinions...) I would lower it on 18's or 19's. I am thinking about 17's or 18's on my car (I cut and welded the front fenders to tuck them), and do not consider them to look bad on a G body so long as they tuck. Anything bigger screws up the proportions and makes it look like a cartoon caricature. The lifted thing will not get as much respect as lowered does, since lowered cars are a generally accepted norm of good taste (depending on how low). Again, you asked for opinions, so I gave you mine.

As for it being a 442, yes, irreversible mods will mess up the car's value.


See, this whole "form>function thing"....where did you guys get that? Did you think just because they're on bigger rims, that they're still not able to perform? There's a TON of cars that have bigger rims that can run with the best of them. Seriously. Like I said, I think ya'll have seen it done wrong so many times, ya'll dont know the right way when you see it. There's just as much engine/transmission/brake modifications as a car that's in this form, if not more. If you need examples, I'd be glad to provide them.

....and BTW, who would lift a car for 22's?! There's no need to at all...for 24's, yes...for 22's? Not at all. Nobody does that.

I respect your opinion. That's perfectly fine. In asking for ideas, you have to take the good with the bad. If NOBODY agreed with what I wanted to do, hey...that's the risk you take...you can't please everyone, BUT...just be respectful about it.
 

87Cutlass442

Apprentice
Oct 22, 2008
69
0
0
Indianapolis
Prime example:

This car is on 22" DUB Trumps....

100_9878.jpg



Does this even look remotely close to being lifted?! That's because it doesn't have to be...


Here's the same car on another set of 22's (DUB Ganja floaters)

DSC03141.jpg



Here's a different one; they run in the same group (22" DUB Trumps)
DSC02717.jpg



....SO, as you can see, 22's require NO modications whatsoever, unless you're running a staggered offset...and even THAT doesn't require lifting. Other than that, anyone who lifts one for 22's, is an idiot.
 
Sep 1, 2006
6,687
34
0
Tampa Bay Area
Okay, the whole form>function thing ( just remember, you asked for opinions! If you are afraid of hearing divergent opinions, don't ask people what they think). Rotational mass has a far greater impact on vehicle performance than static mass. It is both more difficult to accelerate, and more difficult to decelerate. This places additional loads on the axle shafts, U joints, transmission, etc. Additionally, lifting a vehicle raises the center of gravity affecting both handling and stability.

My cars do get modified with cosmetics in mind, but more so that I don't stick out too much, hence my cars are understated and not ostentatious. The exterior for me is less important as compared to how the mechanical aspects of the car performs. Thus, I try to optimize the mathematics of vehicle dynamics rather than draw attention to myself. I'd probably spend the money that the 24's cost on a 6 speed manual transmission swap instead. My car is oriented towards corner burning, overall driveability, fuel economy, and occupant comfort. I am an engineering student, so I do tend to get pedantic with the mechanical details. I try to get the best performance out of the car without compromising other things to get there. That's me. You are free to disagree with me, this is an open forum.

BTW, I would never be caught dead driving any of the cars in the above pictures. Not my style. All the local cops would think I was a drug dealer and harass me non-stop.
 

R/T kota

Master Mechanic
Apr 29, 2007
330
0
0
Hamilton Ontario
87Cutlass442 said:
See, this whole "form>function thing"....where did you guys get that? Did you think just because they're on bigger rims, that they're still not able to perform? There's a TON of cars that have bigger rims that can run with the best of them. Seriously. Like I said, I think ya'll have seen it done wrong so many times, ya'll dont know the right way when you see it. There's just as much engine/transmission/brake modifications as a car that's in this form, if not more. If you need examples, I'd be glad to provide them.

....and BTW, who would lift a car for 22's?! There's no need to at all...for 24's, yes...for 22's? Not at all. Nobody does that.

I respect your opinion. That's perfectly fine. In asking for ideas, you have to take the good with the bad. If NOBODY agreed with what I wanted to do, hey...that's the risk you take...you can't please everyone, BUT...just be respectful about it.

This is what form over function gets you when you try to get it to perform.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8znD7-l5Tmo
 

87Cutlass442

Apprentice
Oct 22, 2008
69
0
0
Indianapolis
85 Cutlass Brougham said:
Okay, the whole form>function thing ( just remember, you asked for opinions! If you are afraid of hearing divergent opinions, don't ask people what they think). Rotational mass has a far greater impact on vehicle performance than static mass. It is both more difficult to accelerate, and more difficult to decelerate. This places additional loads on the axle shafts, U joints, transmission, etc. Additionally, lifting a vehicle raises the center of gravity affecting both handling and stability.

My cars do get modified with cosmetics in mind, but more so that I don't stick out too much, hence my cars are understated and not ostentatious. The exterior for me is less important as compared to how the mechanical aspects of the car performs. Thus, I try to optimize the mathematics of vehicle dynamics rather than draw attention to myself. I'd probably spend the money that the 24's cost on a 6 speed manual transmission swap instead. My car is oriented towards corner burning, overall driveability, fuel economy, and occupant comfort. I am an engineering student, so I do tend to get pedantic with the mechanical details. I try to get the best performance out of the car without compromising other things to get there. That's me. You are free to disagree with me, this is an open forum.

BTW, I would never be caught dead driving any of the cars in the above pictures. Not my style. All the local cops would think I was a drug dealer and harass me non-stop.


You know, I was completely aware of EVERYTHING (literally) that you stated. Of course, a 24" wheel is going to have more weight than a 15" wheel, so rotational mass is greater, thus putting a strain on everything from the brakes, to the engine/transmission, etc...

...BUT, that's why I said these cars have numerous upgrades. Nothing remains stock on them. Literally. A lot of these cars have the same parts that ya'll do, BUT...as soon as ya'll see the "big wheels", they immediately get thrown under the bus.

But, you know...it's cool. You'll obviously never see my point, and I doubt anyone else will. Normally, I'm always up for a good debate, but only if it actually leads somewhere. Otherwise, you're talking just for the sake of talking.

As far as opinions go, like I've stated before, I could seriously care less what anyone thinks...do you. Nobody...not even 2 best friends think like on everything. As long as your opposing opinion is respectful, that's all I care about.

As far as being mistaken for a "drug dealer", that's strange, seeing where you're located from. There's a ton of these cars in Tampa and South FL.in general...that's where it originated from. Besides, I'm 28...if I was going to get pulled over, it wouldn't make a difference if I drove one of those cars, or I spent $60,000+ on a Benz...both are stereotypes, except the Benz screams "how did he afford that at his age?"
 

87Cutlass442

Apprentice
Oct 22, 2008
69
0
0
Indianapolis
R/T kota said:
87Cutlass442 said:
See, this whole "form>function thing"....where did you guys get that? Did you think just because they're on bigger rims, that they're still not able to perform? There's a TON of cars that have bigger rims that can run with the best of them. Seriously. Like I said, I think ya'll have seen it done wrong so many times, ya'll dont know the right way when you see it. There's just as much engine/transmission/brake modifications as a car that's in this form, if not more. If you need examples, I'd be glad to provide them.

....and BTW, who would lift a car for 22's?! There's no need to at all...for 24's, yes...for 22's? Not at all. Nobody does that.

I respect your opinion. That's perfectly fine. In asking for ideas, you have to take the good with the bad. If NOBODY agreed with what I wanted to do, hey...that's the risk you take...you can't please everyone, BUT...just be respectful about it.

This is what form over function gets you when you try to get it to perform.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8znD7-l5Tmo


Lol...not at all! Hell, watch PINKS...I've seen that happen on cars with stock rims on slicks. Numerous times, actually.
 

midwestls

Royal Smart Person
Aug 15, 2007
1,497
13
0
Bismarck North Dakota
R/T kota said:
87Cutlass442 said:
See, this whole "form>function thing"....where did you guys get that? Did you think just because they're on bigger rims, that they're still not able to perform? There's a TON of cars that have bigger rims that can run with the best of them. Seriously. Like I said, I think ya'll have seen it done wrong so many times, ya'll dont know the right way when you see it. There's just as much engine/transmission/brake modifications as a car that's in this form, if not more. If you need examples, I'd be glad to provide them.

....and BTW, who would lift a car for 22's?! There's no need to at all...for 24's, yes...for 22's? Not at all. Nobody does that.

I respect your opinion. That's perfectly fine. In asking for ideas, you have to take the good with the bad. If NOBODY agreed with what I wanted to do, hey...that's the risk you take...you can't please everyone, BUT...just be respectful about it.

This is what form over function gets you when you try to get it to perform.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8znD7-l5Tmo


I don't have time right now, but don't forget how many video's a guy could find of cars not on big rims breaking the same way, or worse. Now that you mention it maybe we can get some people to weigh there 14" or however wide they are slicks. Mounted up I bet they don't weigh any less then the average 22" wheel/tire combo.
 

87Cutlass442

Apprentice
Oct 22, 2008
69
0
0
Indianapolis
Tony_SS said:
Since you mentioned it, what are these guys doing for brakes?

Most of them are doing custom Wilwood big brake set-ups, and there's also a company in Ft.Lauderdale called B&C Industries; they also do custom big brake kits.
 

78mali350

Royal Smart Person
May 13, 2007
1,689
5
38
Pratt, KS
how much more do those cars weigh running the big rims?
 
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