LS Tesla swap

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LukeZ

G-Body Guru
Apr 24, 2015
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This talk of transmission lines brings up a question on my end.


15-20 years ago I was in western ND when coal mining for energy production was big. There is not a single coal fired power plant in western ND that creates electricity for people that live outside the region.

Coal was/is loaded onto train cars and transported to the power plants in nearby states. They even went so far as to build a gasification plant that 'burns' coal into a natural gas like gas which is pipelined to the end customer.


The question was, why don't they just build a big power plant in western ND and transmission line the electricity to states/cities like Denver Colorado, Illinois, ect. The answer was the cost and inefficiency of the transmission lines. Apparently it was more efficient to train car the coal OR turn it into gas to transport it than it was to turn it into electricity and transmit 500 miles away.

Has that changed? Are there better (low resistance) transmission line materials? Has the political structure changed and they care less about efficiency and more about being 'green' for the sake of being 'green'?

At some point if solar or wind becomes the main energy source, transmission lines are going to have to get better. Putting solar panels in low population density places like the desert of Nevada and transmitting the energy to LA, putting wind turbines in rural IA and shipping the energy to Chicago and similar are going to have to become better.

Ohm's law hasn't changed. You can't 'distribute' the grid better and get rid of resistance. The ONLY thing I can think of that solves this would be superconductors and I haven't heard a squawk about using them for transmission lines. Heck, I recently heard how a number of utility companies were purchasing China made transmission lines only to replace them a few years later with US made ones because they wanted to save a buck initially and they deteriorated so quickly and had so many issues that it was cheaper to buy new stuff because the energy loss was high.
Good points that you brought up. Always interesting for me to hear how things are done in the West and mid-West where lots of thing are spaced out very far - my experience is mainly with East Coast style design, dealing with very large concentrations of load and relatively short distances (compared to the West at least, as far as I know).

I'm sure being 'green' for the sake of being 'green' plays a large role. I would also say that existing infrastructure played a large role. Coal has been used in generation forever, and many railroads have been in service for a very long time as well (definitely when coal came about). I personally cannot name any new railroads constructed in the last 15 years, not where I live. If the railroads are already there and they are cheap to use, why not use them?

Cheaper does not mean more efficient. If you've ever had to deal with long range planning or budgeting or anything similar for a company, you know that board members, VPs, and C-suite staff only care about the bottom line at the end of the day - it outweighs anything else. Whether or not more usable 'power' could be moved by transmission lines vs rail, I guarantee the cheaper option at the time was the one that was chosen.

I'm actually not sure what conductors were used in older transmission lines. I'm sure much if it is ACSR, which is relatively cheap and strong. Any newer lines are likely AAC, as aluminum is an excellent conductor of electricity. I'm sure some transmission lines use a composite conductor or some form of copper-core conductor as well. I am not familiar with any superconductor transmission lines so I can't speak about that.

One other concept is HVDC transmission, which uses DC as opposed to AC. The main benefit I know is reduced cost after a certain break-even distance with AC transmission - this makes them great for super long distances. Because the current is non-oscillating, it is typically a little more efficient to transmit at long ranges. The only reason AC has been used all through history is because it can easily be stepped up or down to different voltage levels. With the development of the semi-conductor and as technology progresses, it is getting easier to 'transform' DC power to different usable voltages with low losses.

One thing you're seemingly assuming is that the classical power supply model will remain the same forever - it has already changed. This is an issue I deal with on a day-to-day basis coordinating existing protective equipment and load centers. DERs have exploded in recent times - think of it as smaller-scale generation that is dispersed throughout existing load centers. This includes rooftop solar, wind, municipal water reservoirs, municipal flywheels, on-site geothermal storage, etc.

Instead of power being generated "off-site" and moved "on-site", "on-site" generation is rapidly growing. The system was not designed for this, and we are actively trying to make major improvements to accommodate.

Hope this clears a lot of things up. Happy to discuss further
 
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jiho

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Jul 26, 2013
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The ONLY thing I can think of that solves this would be superconductors and I haven't heard a squawk about using them for transmission lines.

You haven't heard a squawk because no known superconductor can superconduct at anything close to ambient temperatures. All known superconductors must be cooled to extremely low temperatures before they will superconduct, such that the power required to do the cooling exceeds the power that can be superconducted.

As for solar panels -- in the desert, or on your rooftop -- they are all made in China, and require large, expensive batteries with limited lifespan.
 
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LukeZ

G-Body Guru
Apr 24, 2015
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You haven't heard a squawk because no known superconductor can superconduct at anything close to ambient temperatures. All known superconductors must be cooled to extremely low temperatures before they will superconduct, such that the power required to do the cooling exceeds the power that can be superconducted.

As for solar panels -- in the desert, or on your rooftop -- they are all made in China, and require large, expensive batteries with limited lifespan.
Are you saying that all solar arrays need battery storage alongside? Because that is not true.
 

jiho

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Jul 26, 2013
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Are you saying that all solar arrays need battery storage alongside? Because that is not true.

Well not always. When I said they need batteries, I was thinking of consumer rooftop. Sloppy statement on my part, with exaggerated impact. :mrgreen:

Score one for utilities.

But the panels are still made in China.
 

jiho

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He "retired" years ago. But, per Wikipedia:

"In May 2014 at age 82, Garlits set a 184 mph (296 km/h) speed record with Swamp Rat 37, a 2,000 hp battery-powered EV dragster. In July 2019 at age 87, he set a new quarter-mile record of 189.03 mph (304.21 km/h) with Swamp Rat 38, a 1,500 lb dragster with a battery-powered 800 hp electric motor."
 
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bogistshop

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May 11, 2022
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There i fixed it Vroom Vroom Vroom


https://s3xymodels.com/products/act...MIg62s_dTd8QIVmQaICR3ZYA4JEAQYASABEgKOhfD_BwE



pretend episode 9 GIF
???
 
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