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Manual brake swap+++UPDATED++w/more pics

Discussion in 'Chassis / Drivetrain / Suspension / Wheels' started by Wile E, Jan 16, 2012.

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  1. Wile E

    Wile E Greasemonkey

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    This is what I've posted on M/R concerning my manual brake swap, thought it might help out here also.
    I've been watching the manual brake post here and on other sites very closely because I'm doing the same thing. I've seen alot of the same questions keep popping up (including some by me) and I thought some pictures may help clarify things. I'm not a brake guru. I hoped to have this finished up this weekend, but been called into work a few times. So here's what I've got so far.
    Here's the brake peddle from my parts car with power brakes, the upper hole (above the pushrod stud) is the hole thats needed for the manual brake pushrod to have the proper leverage.
    [​IMG]

    Here's my brake peddle with the new stud pressed in (I added a bit of loctite for peace of mind) The old power brake stud could be removed, I left it.
    [​IMG]


    Opening left in firewall after removing booster
    [​IMG]

    Here is the adapter plate I had intended to use from a manual brake s10. Notice how the mounting holes are distorted from the bolt torque.
    [​IMG]

    Instead....I'm using this aluminum adapter plate. Notice it has a integeral cup to retain the pushrod. More on that later...
    [​IMG]

    The opening in the firewall need some minor trimming when a pushrod retaining cup is used, not much, took about 2-3 minutes to open up the upper portion of the opening about 1/8", I test fitted the s10 type also, that cup size is larger and would have required even more trimming.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Thats it for now. Next weekend I hope to finish up and show some pictures of the custom pushrod and Manual master bolted up. Special thanks to Malibudave1978. He's helped me get this project headed in the right direction. The guy knows his stuff!!
     
  2. Bowiemontecarlo86

    Bowiemontecarlo86 G-Body Guru

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    Re: Manual brake swap with pictures

    Looks like some good progress already nice work. Question tho why go to manual brakes? I thought power brakes where always better.
     
  3. pontiacgp

    pontiacgp Canadian Prime Minister

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    Re: Manual brake swap with pictures

    manual brakes allow better modulation of the brakes and get rid of some top heavy weight sand clean up that area. As far as braking goes a 15 year old drove the race car with no power brakes and he had no problem with it. Remember to S 10's came with manual brakes
     
  4. LSCustoms

    LSCustoms Royal Smart Person

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    Re: Manual brake swap with pictures

    what type of brakes (calipers/drums) are you running front and back and will this be affected if you run a different caliper or four wheel disc brakes? and what made you settle on fabbing a conversion up, instead of one of the kits that are already made? like the tnt? reason Im asking is because I bought the TNT and a new Strange MC...
     
  5. malibudave

    malibudave Apprentice

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    Re: Manual brake swap with pictures

    TNT is a beautiful kit that works fine.

    What is most important is the size of the master cylinder you will be running. I think you could get away with a smaller bore (7/8") master cylinder, regardless of the brake setup you will be using. You probably got the Strange 1.032" bore or the 1.125" bore master cylinder. In my opinion, these bore sizes are a little large.

    Smaller bore = more fluid pressure (good caliper clamping force), but more pedal travel (to get the volume of fluid to the caliper). This helps with brake "feel".

    Larger bore = more fluid volume (bad caliper clamping force), less pedal travel. This results in a hard pedal with normal power or normal manual brake pedal ratios.

    With a larger bore master cylinder, a higher pedal ratio is needed to get sufficient fluid pressure to the caliper (more leverage and good caliper clamping force).

    You would be able to get away with a larger bore master cylinder if you had a higher pedal ratio. Stock g-body power brake pedal ratio is around 5 to 1, TNT manual brake set up is around 5.5 to 1, and the stock g-body manual brake setup is arount 6 to 1. The higher the ratio the better, to a point.
     
  6. Chris Van

    Chris Van G-Body Guru

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    Re: Manual brake swap with pictures


    I went with a TNT kit with a strange master cylinder and have been very satisfied with it. I have the factory disc brakes up front and Wilwood disc brakes in the rear.
     
  7. LSCustoms

    LSCustoms Royal Smart Person

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    Re: Manual brake swap with pictures

    Sweet thanks
     
  8. malibudave

    malibudave Apprentice

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    Re: Manual brake swap with pictures

    What size strange master cylinder are you running?

    How does the brake pedal feel when you stop the car?

    Are you able to lock up the front brakes?

    Thanks for the feedback.

    Dave
     
  9. Wile E

    Wile E Greasemonkey

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    Re: Manual brake swap with pictures

    So here is the adjustable pushrod I'm using attached to the brake pedal, the longer pushrod is from the s10 set-up, but it would need to be shortend alot to work.
    [​IMG]
    Here's the factory pushrod still attached to the booster. The factory one is held captive within the booster and when the other end is attached to the brake pedal, it's a pretty solid and safe set-up that will not fall apart, when using a s-10 manual plate and cup, or one like I've shown with an attached cup, the push rod will not have an opportunity to lose contact with the master cylinder, without some type of pushrod retention, the pushrod could potentially lose contact if the pedal is over-extended.
    [​IMG]
    Here's what the retention cup looks like from the interior side without the pedal assembly. (rubber boot not shown).
    [​IMG]
    Here's another veiw with the pedal/pushrod and boost installed. I used a original s10 boot, however it's a bit too long and not in the best shape, I may look for something that fits a little better. Also, notice the hole above the brake light switch, it's for factory cruise control, It's not likely the push rod will fall away from the master with the retention cup, however
    I plan on putting a bolt thru that hole and adjusting it to keep the pedal from over-extending (backwards) and having the pushrod fall out of the hole.
    [​IMG]
    Here's a pic from the firewall side.
    [​IMG]
    The kit I used came with some really nice detailed instructions, here's another picture of the parts I used (some nice stainless steel hardware was included shown in the firewall pic) thats the s10 set-up I had originally planned on using pictured next to the nice stuff.
    [​IMG]
    It will be a while before I get a chance to try all this out, calipers and brake lines are on a LONG list of to do things.
     
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