Good for you build something fun. Keep us posted. What kind of build you plan on doing? Gas mileage doesn't have to be horrible. It can be built so that its acceptable for a non primary transportation vehicle. An overdrive, lock up converter, Q-jet and reasonable cam can make for acceptable mileage.
Pontiac 455 from derby car = bad idea?
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dogshit said:
As much as I want to hurry and get done with the car I'm going to TRY to take my time and do things the right way. I'm no Pontiac guru so I've been asking a lot of questions. I even bought Jim Hand's book and starting reading it too.
My ultimate goal is a hardcore street cruiser, lots of torque, excellent throttle response and most of all reliable. From what I read the '76 Q-jet is a good carb to start with (another book....Cliff Ruggles) and I've always been a fan of them anyway. I already had plans for a built 200-4R too.
I haven't picked a rear gear yet because I'm still bouncing around with cam ideas. I've been considering taking the plunge for a roller cam & valve train if it's worth it. Maybe it's overkill on a street car considering the cost. Input appreciated!
This build may take awhile and have some cost, but I don't like doing things twice if I can help it. The problem is deciding where to stop with upgrades.
I used an electric choke 800cfm Q-jet rebuilt for my combo by a pro and it worked flawlessly. Not only did it power my 509ci Cutlass at WOT to 110mph in the quarter and up to 140mph blast without fuel starvation issues, (as watched on my windshield mounted fuel pressure guage) it also managed 17.0 mpg on an interstate trip. Throttle response was immediate and part throttle transitions were comparable to fuel injected car. Maybe not at the far ends of weather and elavation extremes but its also about $2,000 cheaper and requires no learning curve. It will get nudged out by a Holley or the like at WOT especially in a wildly cammed small block but for a street car its still head and shoulders better than anything else.
"Hardcore street cruiser, lots of torque, excellent throttle response and most of all reliable." Primarily the same goals I used for my Caddy powered Cutlass/442 build. You have probably also seen the websites on Dwight and Robert Powers 455 Olds powered Cutlasses as they did successful builds with the same type of goals.
Certainly building a roller motors extends the envelope on those goals a bit but whether it does enough to warrant the extra expense is entirely opinion based and relative to the amount of discretionary funds in your billfold. Most of the BOPCadillac 455/500 builders end up sticking with a hydraulic flat tappet cam with an at 50 duration in the 230 to 240 range and all the lift they can reasonably get. Also get a good rocker arm set up with the highest ratio you can get. It will help you get the most of your cam without sacrificing the things that keep you from using a race cam in the first place. Having your heads, valves, bowl work, valvejob, done right is paramount not only in getting the power out but also for reliability. Paying for experience & detailed workmanship here is well worth the money. I would spring for the beehive springs for this type build. Even if you don't get an adjustable rocker arm setup up they should also be able to make sure they are flat & square and verify what your actual spring pressure are at seat and at your max cam lift. None of this requires that you pay a million dollars to get your heads done just that they are able and willing to take the time to do them right for a performance build. This is where a shop or guy that likes or specializes in BOPC engines sometimes pays as a bad attitude from someone because he secretly doesn't want to bother with one of those motors.
http://www.extremeautomatics.com Lonnie Dier built my 200-4R and I had great success with it. HIs website has a lot of great info on it. With Big Pontiac torque and maybe some drag radials you probably should opt for the optional billet forward drum/shaft. I don't know that you need the more expensive trans build that he shows that including this option but consider adding this part regardless. Back when he built mine I just added it to the basic street strip build and the Caddy make more torque and has it come on sooner than the Pontiac. My transmission WOT shifted at 5,200 rpms which worked perfect for my cam as max HP was probably at 4,900. With a little more cam depending on what you choose, and a litle shorter stroke you may choose one that shifts WOT at 5,600. In either case you would probably be best suited with a 3.73 and a 28" drag radial. For torque converters I used a built up factory "D5" lock up converter. I used 2,800 stall with the Caddy and 3,000 with the Buick GN and loved them both for street use because of the lock up.
"Hardcore street cruiser, lots of torque, excellent throttle response and most of all reliable." Primarily the same goals I used for my Caddy powered Cutlass/442 build. You have probably also seen the websites on Dwight and Robert Powers 455 Olds powered Cutlasses as they did successful builds with the same type of goals.
Certainly building a roller motors extends the envelope on those goals a bit but whether it does enough to warrant the extra expense is entirely opinion based and relative to the amount of discretionary funds in your billfold. Most of the BOPCadillac 455/500 builders end up sticking with a hydraulic flat tappet cam with an at 50 duration in the 230 to 240 range and all the lift they can reasonably get. Also get a good rocker arm set up with the highest ratio you can get. It will help you get the most of your cam without sacrificing the things that keep you from using a race cam in the first place. Having your heads, valves, bowl work, valvejob, done right is paramount not only in getting the power out but also for reliability. Paying for experience & detailed workmanship here is well worth the money. I would spring for the beehive springs for this type build. Even if you don't get an adjustable rocker arm setup up they should also be able to make sure they are flat & square and verify what your actual spring pressure are at seat and at your max cam lift. None of this requires that you pay a million dollars to get your heads done just that they are able and willing to take the time to do them right for a performance build. This is where a shop or guy that likes or specializes in BOPC engines sometimes pays as a bad attitude from someone because he secretly doesn't want to bother with one of those motors.
http://www.extremeautomatics.com Lonnie Dier built my 200-4R and I had great success with it. HIs website has a lot of great info on it. With Big Pontiac torque and maybe some drag radials you probably should opt for the optional billet forward drum/shaft. I don't know that you need the more expensive trans build that he shows that including this option but consider adding this part regardless. Back when he built mine I just added it to the basic street strip build and the Caddy make more torque and has it come on sooner than the Pontiac. My transmission WOT shifted at 5,200 rpms which worked perfect for my cam as max HP was probably at 4,900. With a little more cam depending on what you choose, and a litle shorter stroke you may choose one that shifts WOT at 5,600. In either case you would probably be best suited with a 3.73 and a 28" drag radial. For torque converters I used a built up factory "D5" lock up converter. I used 2,800 stall with the Caddy and 3,000 with the Buick GN and loved them both for street use because of the lock up.
Thanks for the input and info! I'll be looking into a reputable builder in the area before long as well.
A Cad build was something I kicked around for a long time too, just didn't have the funds when I was really interested in it. I think the first time it caught my attention was the CadMaro in CarCraft some years ago. There was also a silver Coupe Deville that did very well in one of their shootouts.
I may still do it one of these days but for now I want to put a Pontiac back in my Pontiac. Thanks again.
A Cad build was something I kicked around for a long time too, just didn't have the funds when I was really interested in it. I think the first time it caught my attention was the CadMaro in CarCraft some years ago. There was also a silver Coupe Deville that did very well in one of their shootouts.
I may still do it one of these days but for now I want to put a Pontiac back in my Pontiac. Thanks again.
Yea the silver & black 82 Coupe DeVille dubbed "Cadillac Attack" won Car Craft's real street eliminator competition and was owned driven and built by Jeff Schwartz. You can see & read about it on www.schwartzperformance.com car projects completed cars link.
You know, this could be a decent tight motor for all you know. If the compression is good, no expensive noises, it might be good to go as is. I have learned over the years that I wasted much money on perfectly good motors without giving them a chance. Now if I can I just pull the oil pan for a new pump, timing cover for a new gear set, and change gaskets all around. If I need a cam that's done too. Why mess with a solid bottom end if you don't have to?
Bonnewagon said:
We'll soon see. I still want to change the cam and maybe go with different heads. It would be nice if I could get away with checking the bottom end with plastigage and everything looking good.
I finally got to see a vid of the engine running and so far, so good. Tomorrow is d-day and I'm picking it up. It's going to be a 10 hour day of driving.
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