Still feeling patriotic? read this

[Randy_W]

The premise of this post is so ridiculous as to make it obvious you are looking for a reason to disrespect your country, maybe even become treasonous. To say that a government employee's incompetence is reason to dissavow your own country shows a moral coruption in a person 's character that proves them no better than the people they berate for failing in their duties to respect the military's fallen heroes. In fact you're more dangerous than these incompetents, because you use their poor behavior to justify your own lack of patriotism.

 

[pencero]

Wow I can't even believe what is happening in this here thread but I'll end my part of it as best I can. It's so clear to me that if I had posted this story the right way and titled it "Ashes of vets sent to the dump" as opposed to what I did title it and offered no point of view or tilt on the whole thing there would be no disagreement here. I would say that the story should offend you, but everyone is just deny deny deny and delegate responsibility to a suboordinate. Why? There really must be something in it for you then because it doesnt make sense. And btw megaladon if I lost a limb in a car accident I'm still alive... why would I ever care if my dismembered limb's ashes went to the dump? Totally irrelevant point.

GP, I have determined there is nothing I could possibly say to persuade you that something wrong happened here. I guess if one of your family members bodies got sent to the dump due to signing a paper you misunderstood because you trusted the funeral home director's credibility you would just shrug it off and say "oops. well its totally my fault because I should have put the fine print under a microscope" and blame a suboordinate who works at the funeral home instead of everyone who knew about it that worked there. Get real. You are so far Right you are wrong, and if I lined up 100 children who have no concept of politics not one of them would agree with you. You are just like Randy with the "its convenient for me to support a corrupt institution rather than bite the hand that feeds" and "I should defend my country even when its wrong" thing.

you have no idea any dishonesty has actually taken place.

Yeah that pretty much says it all. Thats the cornerstone of the whole entire story - but I just heard a 747 flying over your house - and you didnt. NY87SS heard it too

unlike yourself I do not look for excuses to attack the government.

Two can play that game I already said in a earlier post:

I just happened to have gbodyforum open and found this story on msn

so that definitely proves you just want to argue. I wonder if you even really do support the government you are standing up for in this post or really just love arguing. At least if you were an attorney for the military you would be getting paid to take the case. I really hope you are just kidding and laughing at the progression of this thread in your house and its all a joke or a game because I'd hate to live in a world where I post a story about military families being decieved and disrespected and people rise up in defense of that, being so constitutionally dishonest with themselves that they cannot even see a wrong was done and implicating that "this is a valid cost effective solution to an expensive problem and any failure to disclose which may have occured was with good intentions to save you money!" and failing to acknowledge that when someone is decieved by a gov employee a crime occured.

I mean where can I go from here with this thread? We're in the middle of the badlands where I didnt want to end up and like the 4th post in I already said it:

lock this thread

and

this clearly wasnt the place

because at this point its like when you already brought a dog to a steaming pile of sh*t and you're not really feeling his reaction to it. These dogs can talk though and said "there isnt a pile of sh*t here, but if there was a pile of sh*t here somebody else is responsible for it" when theres totally a pile of sh*t here yall. But if yall cant see it nevermind it's sad that we live in a world like that but it is what it is and we've got to play the field how it is not how we think the field should be.

lock this thread

 

[pencero]

The premise of this post is so ridiculous as to make it obvious you are looking for a reason to disrespect your country, maybe even become treasonous. To say that a government employee's incompetence is reason to dissavow your own country shows a moral coruption in a person 's character that proves them no better than the people they berate for failing in their duties to respect the military's fallen heroes. In fact you're more dangerous than these incompetents, because you use their poor behavior to justify your own lack of patriotism.

nah man. The 'premise' of this post is that the families of men and women who died fighting for this country in the military were disrespected in such a foul fashion as to discredit the department for which they served. The real moral corruption of character is when people like you and gp come here and defend something like that when I would have assumed that you would actually be the most outraged by what happened. I'm no traitor, as a matter of fact I would level this accusation your way since you want to point fingers: when you take the side of the leadership of this establishment knowing that it is wrong you betray the men and women you fought along side in the service in favor of attempting to 'do damage control' for their superiors rather then let them attempt to defend themselves - hopefully at a criminal trial instead of a closed door military tribunal which will react just like you and deny deny deny then delegate responsibility to a suboordinate and crucify him.

In addition to that, I cite the 2nd and 14th ammendments to the constitution as validation against your cheap shots that I'm a 'traitor'. It's more important that the principles which the founding fathers risked their lives for continue to prevail in these times than anything you could send my way. They were technically 'traitors' of their time - but who would dare to call them that today except a socialist?

 

[pontiacgp]

The problem you have is you don't know any of the facts and jumped on the story so you can attack the government. It appears you're too naive to realise the media has a way of putting a spin on a story to get the reaction they are looking for. The should be sending you a thank you note. Next time you need to dig a bit further to get some "facts" before you make a fool out of yourself again.

 

[megaladon6]

anyone have any cheese?
pencero: you don't have to post here, you don't even have to read the posts. why do you need someone else to control what happens with you and the thread?

but everyone is just deny deny deny and delegate responsibility to a suboordinate.

what the hell does that mean? what subordinate?

if I lost a limb in a car accident I'm still alive... why would I ever care if my dismembered limb's ashes went to the dump?

uh well, if you're dead, do you care? in either case, what do you do with the limb? do you bury it separately?
in the story, body parts were incinerated and sent to the landfill. what's the difference?

ok, you seem to feel that entire bodies were sent, and without the families permission. that is not what the story says, nor what i find elsewhere. the bodies, or at least the major/available portions were brought home, placed into a casket AND BURIED according to the families wishes. parts that showed up LATER, were disposed of according to standard medical practices, AFTER the families signed a release form. there is nothing unethical here.

 

[megaladon6]

2nd and 14th amendment? WTF? do you even know what they are?
2nd: the right to bear arms
14th: all parts of the constitution apply to all states and all citizens. (this was to prevent southern states from making laws to keep blacks as slaves.) and it made all people born in the US, US citizens.

 

[pencero]

I cant even lie I came out of 'left field' with the story but facts are facts and this did happen whether you want to admit or not. Ashes of servicemen were totally sent to the dump with trash after families of fallen soldiers were decieved about it in 2008 over a war from which we are now withdrawing troops. If I attack the government from behind a computer screen online who wins? Not me. I'm more likely to have feds follow me around and level false accusations my way and run into problems in my life because of it. I simply posted a TRUE story with FACTS in it - but then after that I made a terrible mistake by titling the thread in a leftist way and adding a short comment about what I think about it. Terrible choice!

Should I 'investigate' what happened with the ashes and visit the families of the servicemen and women who were involved and double/triple prove these facts true to satisfy you? What more can I do to prove this story true except more online research about it - which can be equally 'spun' or suffer from 'chinese telephone syndrome'. MSN is a better source of news than fox at least - re-read the story and show me where it becomes opinion or is 'spun to the right/left' anywhere it's just a short collection of facts and thats it. For you all to accuse me of 'attacking the gov' is so lame. They discredited themselves. All I did was post it and make a comment about it. I feel like for me to be 'attacking the gov' online would be if I was going overboard like Michael Moore or I was lying/ misrepresenting the facts. That did not happen here, not today, not this week not even this month.

 

[pontiacgp]

- re-read the story and show me where it becomes opinion or is 'spun to the right/left' anywhere it's just a short collection of facts and thats it.

you really are naive if you even ask a question like that...

 

[pencero]

You're right about one thing megaladon. When I put the 14th ammendment in the convo I really forgot why, and think I had meant to say " 1st and 2nd ammendment rights" but if anything I left out the 1st ammendment which was really central to what I was trying to say to randy. I'll have to revisit what I was thinking at that moment when I put the 14th in b/c now I cant remember how it applied to what I was really trying to say.

As for the whole 'never mind' and 'lock the thread' thing yeah I dont have to come here and post stuff like this but I thought people would get something out of it and theyre not its all denial and delegating responsibility to the department head who was for this happening. So why would I want to alienate people in a political discussion on a car forum then? If I came here w a legit car question and they knew the answer they wouldnt visit the post or if they did they might not answer the question or be like '**** that dude he really pissed me off in that thread about the thing with the military last week' and tell me the wrong information about how to fix my problem thats why I said just lock the thread **** it because this convo going south on me w/ everyone is lame. We're supposed to be here for the cars and the up and coming and the mentoring noobs to the game not to come here to argue about this type of stuff. It was just an error in judgement to comment on the story, not really to post the story, but to comment either way on it.

 

[pontiacgp]

oh so if we don't agree with you we are in denial, lame and members of a cult...have you noticed not one person agreed with your patriotic twist on this story?