The Poor Should Pay Higher Taxes

[CaStylin]

The Salvation Army here doesn't turn anyone away, but they do require you to attend services before you get your free stuff. So, you know what? They go to the other handouts at the Baptist mission because there are no requirements!

By requiring attention of service it is an attempt to convert in order to support religion... This not for the good of the individual but nothing other then holding food over someone’s head to get a desired response... I worked at a couple shelters and done much volunteer work... You can not stay in these places and receive there training unless you commit to there religious view... I had a boarder house toss a young girl out on the street because while she was there she was raped and became pregnant but didn’t want the keep the child... again its convert or go back on the street no matter how much you are working toward improving their own lives

But this is all irreverent because we are talking government allotted tax dollars… these are not government funded programs so why are we contining to say the goverment is handing large amonts of money directly to the homeless

You think that money is the answer to this problem? Wrong again, my California friend. The government has been throwing money away toward this forever and nothing has improved over the last 50 years, has it? Perhaps a new approach is needed? Some change that we can believe in?

The Government has not been throwing cent on the dollar of what it would take to equalize schooling in American on a public level; a new approach is needed and has been for some time now. Tell me would you rather have your children at intercity school or suburban school (mind you that your religious base for your child is constant regardless of the school). If do you think the overall performance and experience would be the same or close enough to provide equal opportunity in future life commitments… If so why

Where do you think this school money comes from? It comes from people who pay taxes. Do you think that the people with more money pay more or less in taxes? Do you think that their school districts will get more money if more people WITH money who pay MORE taxes live in those districts? This is simple math and it is easy to see where the answers lie.

Using a blatently communist approach to redistribute wealth and give the inner cities more will not fix the core problem. The problem is not money. The problem is personal responsibility. The problem is values. The inner city doesn't have any. They don't have any because their parents don't have any. It is an unbroken cycle that has been around since there have been inner cities.

The commitment to religion is just as strong among the intercity as it is among the general population as a whole… to provide church as a reason why there is or is not crime in an area is ludicrous. With out changing the terms and happens of an environment we can not change the social and cultural norms of the people in the environment. You are correct in school taxes and see how there is a large difference in funding but fail to see that the amount of funding is proportional to the outcomes in social movement. Being from a school with few books, no cpu’s and moving to a school that had its own football field I don’t mind an equalization of taxes for children who don’t have the ability to be socially liquid by any means

The solution? At some point, a poor inner city kid needs to be moved to a family member (or adopted family) somewhere else where they go to Church and have some type of moral values. You find a way to do that and you will solve the poor and homeless problems by about 90%.

Again… forcing religion upon people does not instill morals of any sort … The KKK are Christian people and there morals are questionable by the masses. The heads of our banks are either predestine or of Christina decent and have screwed many out of there money. Heads of Enron where christens and look at them and what they did. And we can speak of the long history of violence and taxation from the Vatican and other christen based societies (such as America during in the age of the Native American and the age of slavery)

Education is the key for social ecomomic movement… if its not please tell me why do so many continue to go to college? We talk equality in advancement but don’t what believe that the means of advancement are not equal. Those who are in better schools have a higher commitment to college and opting a higher level job. I guess splitting up families and moving them to other families that have good schools to get a better education is not the same as getting better schools for a better education and keeping families together

 

[KrisW]

You are so off balance that I don't honestly know where to begin! I guess we will just keep going on point by point.

The Salvation Army:
If someone has the willingness to get help then they will. How does anyone know what is your heart or mind. These people help others for free. You think going to church is a forced conversion? Here is my point; if you are not willing to take what is out there then you are FREELY CHOOSING to live without help. People who really want help can get it. Most any church, synagogue or mosque out there will not turn away those at their doorstep looking for help. If you want help from religious people, then you need to accept what they are giving you. Change it later if you want. If you think religion is so evil and that government is the better way then do that, too! Especially in California, there are so many programs to help those with nothing, I don't know where you get your stories from. If I am homeless, I am going to my Church for help AND THEY WILL HELP ME. Don't give me this crap about "I shouldn't have to convert to get help," or any other such nonsense. Either you REALLY want help or you don't. It seems to me that someone who is really in need and turns down help must have the drive and initiative to help themselves. This is a common problem of the anti-religious in our country. They substitute the government for religion as you are suggesting with more taxpayer spending to help the homeless versus private programs. If you are too proud or whatever to take help then don't take it; don't steal my money to give it to someone who doesn't earn it. I help people in the way I feel best and government is ALWAYS LAST ON THE LIST.


Education:

Once again you bring your argument back to pure communism (which I believe is evil) in the form of taking wealth from others to give it to people who didn't earn it. Did you not make it out of your bad situation? I know I did, and the government didn't do anything to help me. I did it with the help of other private individuals and my own hard work. What is wrong with that? You're going to tell me that people don't have the opportunity? Bull crap. I have moved with no money. It is called walking with a bag full of your stuff. Anyone can do it. Of course there is help from Churches too, but we wouldn't want to offend anyone who needs help, now would we?

You need to look at history. Go way, way back. These communist ideas NEVER work. Every single country that has used them has failed economically and socially. Every single one. Western Europe is now in decline with most countries averaging above 15% unemployment. The reason? Government handouts increase laziness and take away motivation for fixing your problems. When you are in trouble IT IS SUPPOSED TO SUCK! Otherwise, how would you ever get motivated to fix it?

You take away the motivation when you take my money and give it to someone who didn't earn it. They don't better themselves with my money, they just get lazy.

Show just ONE documented, historical proof that education fixes people's problems. It doesn't.

There are plenty of educated people who are out of work. I guess their degrees didn't help them and neither did their high school computer classes.

I didn't get any of that stuff and I am doing fine. But, I am a motivated person. And there you have it. It is about personal initiative and personal responsibility. Money doesn't invent that inside people and neither does education. Adversity and wanting makes it happen. Suffering makes it happen. I have suffered and I am better for it. So are you.

Encourage the people who are down to work harder, not work harder to get over with government funding or handouts.

 

[CaStylin]

The Salvation Army:
If someone has the willingness to get help then they will. How does anyone know what is your heart or mind. These people help others for free. You think going to church is a forced conversion? Here is my point; if you are not willing to take what is out there then you are FREELY CHOOSING to live without help. People who really want help can get it. Most any church, synagogue or mosque out there will not turn away those at their doorstep looking for help.

So you’re now saying that if I was to go there today, I can get their services but not be preached to or be required to attend their services?

If you think religion is so evil and that government is the better way then do that, too!

In general religion is not evil, there are of course religions that are elites and/or exclusionist and there have been many time periods were holocaust of peoples where motivated by religion but I don’t feel they are evil. Government funding/handouts of the homeless, no I don’t believe in that either, but that was never my argument… my argument was that funding was not coming from the government… I don’t feel bad for those who don’t take advantage of government programs that require commitment… make a program available to the masses and those that don’t except are on their own… You can force feed anyone anything that they don’t want.

Especially in California, there are so many programs to help those with nothing; I don't know where you get your stories from. If I am homeless, I am going to my Church for help AND THEY WILL HELP ME. Don't give me this crap about "I shouldn't have to convert to get help,”

being required to attend services, and pray to a given god other then that of their own is an attempt to convert… We as American christens did it to the children of the American Indians… any that did not where pretty much left to die… this was not for the good of the people but for the desire of the church

Or any other such nonsense. Either you REALLY want help or you don't. It seems to me that someone who is really in need and turns down help must have the drive and initiative to help themselves. This is a common problem of the anti-religious in our country. They substitute the government for religion as you are suggesting with more taxpayer spending to help the homeless versus private programs. If you are too proud or whatever to take help then don't take it; don't steal my money to give it to someone who doesn't earn it. I help people in the way I feel best and government is ALWAYS LAST ON THE LIST.

I never suggest tax-payer programs over private to help the homeless, or hand outs to the homeless… Find it, quote it, and repost it and I will gladly admit my mistake. Those who what help should have the opportunity to get help, I think the government should do this with out any religious ties. Those who don’t can do what they have been doing… what ever they want until they expire.

Education:

Once again you bring your argument back to pure communism (which I believe is evil) in the form of taking wealth from others to give it to people who didn't earn it. Did you not make it out of your bad situation? I know I did, and the government didn't do anything to help me. I did it with the help of other private individuals and my own hard work. What is wrong with that? You're going to tell me that people don't have the opportunity? Bull crap. I have moved with no money. It is called walking with a bag full of your stuff. Anyone can do it. Of course there is help from Churches too, but we wouldn't want to offend anyone who needs help, now would we?

I’m not saying it is impossible to exit your given situations, churches are a great help for those of their following, you where luckily that private individuals also supported your move and there is nothing wrong with that but that does not change the fact that your ride (if you did come from a lower SES) was likely a lot harder then most and with your motivation in a equalized schooling setting would have produced a much wealthier result… you could be a top executive now it you had gotten the proper computer and math training in your elementary schools

Also when it come to education there is no taking from those who earned it and giving to those who haven’t … the people who attend public schools (children) are not paying anything to attend them there… by not having equal public schools we are faulting the children for their given environment which again they do not control.

You need to look at history. Go way, way back. These communist ideas NEVER work. Every single country that has used them has failed economically and socially. Every single one.

Most every one was a dictatorship that was forcefully overrun by competing group advertising under the communist ideals .Each then turned directly into dictatorships almost immediately after power was gained… in a dictatorships I don’t expect any socialistic commitments to be obtained. Those nations where the people voted in socialistic ways are still running and all dealing with the same economic faults that any global government is bound some are actually in better positions to deal with current global needs and change then the US. Dont get me wrong, the US needs our military and by all means should continue as it has been but it does account for a large popluation that with out it would have been wageless or working for much lower rates of pay

Western Europe is now in decline with most countries averaging above 15% unemployment. The reason? Government handouts increase laziness and take away motivation for fixing your problems.

Our enlarged military in comparison to Western Europe more then can account for difference in unemployment rates… Essential providing for jobs on government funds and taking away from the unemployment rates… Being that most of the US armed forces are from the lower SES’s (those which failing education systems and what not as discussed before) the government is basically supplying jobs as an government assistance program for job training… they even advertise it this way.

Show just ONE documented, historical proof that education fixes people's problems.

Education gives the knowledge to succeed, and un educated person only have the potential to do things that require no education, those who are motivated are able to work in factories at minimal wage, those truly motivated with raise above that to higher fields of manual labor with specialization … anyway Give me a couple, I can not access journal studies from this CPU.

There are plenty of educated people who are out of work. I guess their degrees didn't help them and neither did their high school computer classes.
I didn't get any of that stuff and I am doing fine. But, I am a motivated person. And there you have it. It is about personal initiative and personal responsibility. Money doesn't invent that inside people and neither does education. Adversity and wanting makes it happen. Suffering makes it happen. I have suffered and I am better for it. So are you.

Your right… education alone dose not equal success, every thing takes work, desire and motivation… but I rather start off standing up then on my back and shirt less… not getting an education is starting off the 100 yard dash 10 yards behind the start line… Sure if there was no time limit you could finish the race and with motivation and desire you could possibly over take a 1 or 2 but it’s likely the 7 other runners already finish and have taken the available spots

When you are in trouble IT IS SUPPOSED TO SUCK! Otherwise, how would you ever get motivated to fix it You take away the motivation when you take my money and give it to someone who didn't earn it. They don't better themselves with my money, they just get lazy. - - - Encourage the people who are down to work harder, not work harder to get over with government funding or handouts.

Agreed which again is why I don’t support hand outs… if you can help your self and change your status do it… for those who cant (i.e. children) I think it is our responsibly to help them get that equal playing field… what they do from there is up to them

 

[srercrcr]

Glad I could help!

 

[KrisW]

Well, I've been off the grid for a bit, we're having trouble with the net over here in the wilderness. Hope it's fixed for a while!

Apparently I need to beat the dead horse and reply to some recycled nonsensical answers. Most times I would let this die, but in today's economy its important for people to learn the proper lessons so that they can apply them and be successful in their lives.

Here we go again....

"So you’re now saying that if I was to go there today, I can get their services but not be preached to or be required to attend their services?"

Nope. I'm saying the opposite. If you want to eat and you have no food, you can eat there. You WILL have to attend their services. I'm sure that offends many sensible liberals. I would think most hungry people would attend. No one can force you to convert to anything if you don't want to. Are you afraid that if you hear the message of the Good News IT may convert you? Seriously, I don't understand the outrage here. If someone gives you something and you agree to take it, then you are complying with their terms. The government does this as well, right? I don't see the big deal. The Salvation Army is NOT in business to feed the hungry. Their business seems to be men's souls. I think they are on point with their objectives. If you don't, then don't eat there. Simple.

"being required to attend services, and pray to a given god other then that of their own is an attempt to convert… We as American christens did it to the children of the American Indians… any that did not where pretty much left to die… this was not for the good of the people but for the desire of the church:

Wow! Which "church" desired that? Honestly? Not mine... I think you are making my point nicely about what is so BAD about public education. And again, the attempt to convert is called evangelizing by Christians. It is our job and we are instructed to do this in the New Testament. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to "convert" like the Muslims do. They are simply offering meals to people who are often downtrodden and then giving them the message that in our opinion is the most important of their lives. Most people who take their help are much, much better off. I think their successes speak for themselves.

"Those who what help should have the opportunity to get help, I think the government should do this with out any religious ties. Those who don’t can do what they have been doing… what ever they want until they expire."

Whew, this is getting tiring! My point is general and involves ANY government programs. They are all well intentioned and all have disastrous records. I do not believe that those who want help (any kind of help) should be able to get help from the government. I don't. I don't. I don't. The reason? Not because I am cruel ( I help others and give generously to organizations that are private who help) but because the government can't do ONE SINGLE THING RIGHT. NOT ONE. NOT EVEN HALF RIGHT. They can't build or fix roads (the only successful jobs done are contracted out) and they can't help people. What they DO do is take billions of taxpayer dollars and waste them on good intentions. Good intentions that won't offend anyone. And guess what? They don't work. As I said before, when you are down IT IS SUPPOSED TO SUCK. The only way for you to get motivated is to see the hard line. If I am that down, I will go to my Church and my family first. If there is nothing there, then I will start going out further and further. That is how it is supposed to be according to our Constitution. Not a huge nanny welfare state where everyone gets there nose wiped and diaper changed. I'm sorry if there are no private organizations out there like the Salvation Army for atheists or people who "don't want to be converted." Maybe the fact that there aren't any should clue you in as to the difference of attitude of most of those people. They would rather make a law to take MY money to fix the problem rather than give their own.

"Also when it come to education there is no taking from those who earned it and giving to those who haven’t … the people who attend public schools (children) are not paying anything to attend them there… by not having equal public schools we are faulting the children for their given environment which again they do not control."

They DO pay and so do I. It is called a tax. NOTHING is free. FREE stuff from the government is the worst lie there is.

The children are not faulted. THEIR PARENTS CERTAINLY ARE. That is a hard truth but that is how it is.

"Our enlarged military in comparison to Western Europe more then can account for difference in unemployment rates… Essential providing for jobs on government funds and taking away from the unemployment rates… Being that most of the US armed forces are from the lower SES’s (those which failing education systems and what not as discussed before) the government is basically supplying jobs as an government assistance program for job training… they even advertise it this way."

You're off here, too. Damn that public education!! You only need to google to find the PERCENTAGE of government jobs versus private sector of the US versus europe. The government is the NUMBER 1 employer in europe, much less than the US.

"Education gives the knowledge to succeed, and un educated person only have the potential to do things that require no education, those who are motivated are able to work in factories at minimal wage, those truly motivated with raise above that to higher fields of manual labor with specialization … anyway Give me a couple, I can not access journal studies from this CPU. "

Nope. I have only a high school education. I had to start at the bottom and LEARN a skill. There are many skills to learn. You don't need college for that. You can learn to cook food or you can learn to mow grass. You can learn to fix cars or whatever else. This education "NEED" is a false argument. I am living proof of it. I make good money now because I learned a skill. I didn't make good money while I was learning it! That's life!

"Agreed which again is why I don’t support hand outs… if you can help your self and change your status do it… for those who cant (i.e. children) I think it is our responsibly to help them get that equal playing field… what they do from there is up to them"

Those who can't have to do it the hard way like I did. It's a hard world. If you do it that way it actually means something and you gain much. If you get these starts as handouts, they don't mean anything.

 

[KrisW]

This whole thread also brings to mind why I like living in Florida. We basically run on the "fair tax" here, so everybody including hookers and pimps, drug dealers and politicians, all pay the same tax.

Every time they buy something, they pay! And they pay the EXACT SAME THAT I PAY. Even the illegals!!

Cool!!

 

[CaStylin]

welcome back...

"So you’re now saying that if I was to go there today, I can get their services but not be preached to or be required to attend their services?"

Nope. I'm saying the opposite. If you want to eat and you have no food, you can eat there. You WILL have to attend their services. I'm sure that offends many sensible liberals. I would think most hungry people would attend. No one can force you to convert to anything if you don't want to. Are you afraid that if you hear the message of the Good News IT may convert you? Seriously, I don't understand the outrage here. If someone gives you something and you agree to take it, then you are complying with their terms. The government does this as well, right? I don't see the big deal. The Salvation Army is NOT in business to feed the hungry. Their business seems to be men's souls. I think they are on point with their objectives. If you don't, then don't eat there. Simple.

Agreed, terms and conditions of the food received, and I am not outraged. It is a religious establishment, I can not force my view upon them and they will do as they please because it is a private organization. But the statement was originally said is that “you didn’t understand why those who are hungry pass up the offerings of the Soviet Union and go to another church... I gave the reason of the necessity to have to attend service. As people of belief many would rather lay down their lives for there beliefs then to have them infringed on. This is why you are over seas; this is why we have had civil war. It is no different for someone who is hungry, if they don’t believe in that god, or in god at all, why would they subject them selves to what they believe is false hood, if you where captured today and they refused to feed you unless you attended there church and prided to their god would you eat or would starve in the belief your god with provide for you?

"Being required to attend services, and pray to a given god other then that of their own is an attempt to convert… We as American christens did it to the children of the American Indians… any that did not where pretty much left to die… this was not for the good of the people but for the desire of the church

Wow! Which "church" desired that? Honestly? Not mine... I think you are making my point nicely about what is so BAD about public education. And again, the attempt to convert is called evangelizing by Christians. It is our job and we are instructed to do this in the New Testament. Nobody is putting a gun to your head to "convert" like the Muslims do. They are simply offering meals to people who are often downtrodden and then giving them the message that in our opinion is the most important of their lives. Most people who take their help are much, much better off. I think their successes speak for themselves.

The American Christian missionary movement towards the natives of America in the late 1700 and 1800 as American attempted to spread west was a major part of American history, churches, towns people, and at many times the given military took conflicted with the American Indians and their belief system at times even translating the sections of the bible into the native language. There are many accounts of children being separated from their families to be taught the christen way. To believe that the Christian missionary efforts were not apart of incidents such as the “Trail of Tears” is nonsense.

I don’t have much extra time today to debate point by point but here are a few links. They are not all telling but most well cited with time and event. Also I am sure you have heard of the trail of tears, any in-depth reading on this shows the partaking of the missionary moments

http://www.nebraskastudies.org/0400/fra ... _0129.html

http://www.nebraskastudies.org/0400/fra ... _0129.html

http://journalism.berkeley.edu/projects ... story.html

Also when it come to education there is no taking from those who earned it and giving to those who haven’t … the people who attend public schools (children) are not paying anything to attend them there… by not having equal public schools we are faulting the children for their given environment which again they do not control."

They DO pay and so do I. It is called a tax. NOTHING is free. FREE stuff from the government is the worst lie there is.

The children are not faulted. THEIR PARENTS CERTAINLY ARE. That is a hard truth but that is how it is.

As stated before, children to not pay tax, you suggest have the children pay the punishment of there parents, that’s the hard truth and that’s how it is… I say why must that me the hard truth, by all means it doesn’t have to be the hard truth, if taxes where “bucketed” and distrusted equally then education would move towards being equal, it is not calling for more taxes from any one. The one that are fighting it are the ones that want there kids to be at a base advantage over others in the public educational system.

Our enlarged military in comparison to Western Europe more then can account for difference in unemployment rates… Essential providing for jobs on government funds and taking away from the unemployment rates… Being that most of the US armed forces are from the lower SES’s (those which failing education systems and what not as discussed before) the government is basically supplying jobs as a government assistance program for job training… they even advertise it this way."

You're off here, too. Damn that public education!! You only need to Google to find the PERCENTAGE of government jobs versus private sector of the US versus Europe. The government is the NUMBER 1 employer in Europe, much less than the US.

I said the difference in military numbers made up for the difference the unemployment rates, the fact that Europe host more government jobs is trivial when the medical industry as well as many other privatized sections that in the us would be private are considered a government job in Europe. You can do one of two things to be able to view the states together in a percentage comparison, take away the fields that don’t a government counterpart in the US and then compare the numbers/percentages or add the US versions of those fields in to government jobs figure and then compare.


"Education gives the knowledge to succeed, and un educated person only have the potential to do things that require no education, those who are motivated are able to work in factories at minimal wage, those truly motivated with raise above that to higher fields of manual labor with specialization … anyway Give me a couple, I can not access journal studies from this CPU. "

Nope. I have only a high school education. I had to start at the bottom and LEARN a skill. There are many skills to learn. You don't need college for that. You can learn to cook food or you can learn to mow grass. You can learn to fix cars or whatever else. This education "NEED" is a false argument. I am living proof of it. I make good money now because I learned a skill. I didn't make good money while I was learning it! That's life! [/quote]
Maybe it’s just me… but I know few grass cutters that make a 100k or even 50k a year… you can learn to flip burgers and cut grass with no education but you can not improve your living situation by much doing so…like I said before, “those truly motivated with raise above that to higher fields of manual labor with specialization” but again, those motivated with the proper basic high school educational background could do and earn much more

Agreed which again is why I don’t support hand outs… if you can help your self and change your status do it… for those who cant (i.e. children) I think it is our responsibly to help them get that equal playing field… what they do from there is up to them

Those who can't have to do it the hard way like I did. It's a hard world. If you do it that way it actually means something and you gain much. If you get these starts as handouts, they don't mean anything.

I can not say how hard it was for you or even decide what SES you immerged from but I have this over whelming feeling that they paid for books in your school instead of printing out handouts every so often, your streets may have been bad but weren’t over populated with public intoxication, hookers, police correction and gang activity, you had a place to stay that may not have been the best of place but was decent and always had enough even if it was just one parent

To rise from what I described is not easy by any means when you cant afford to even dress the part, and with those out there already knowing then you in the fields needed that those

 

[CaStylin]

This whole thread also brings to mind why I like living in Florida. We basically run on the "fair tax" here, so everybody including hookers and pimps, drug dealers and politicians, all pay the same tax.

Every time they buy something, they pay! And they pay the EXACT SAME THAT I PAY. Even the illegals!!

Cool!!

yea... every one pays sale's Tax .. J/K

 

[srercrcr]

Kris W....I think all states have a sales tax that charges the same rate to everybody. Nothing unusual there. Now if that tax rate is high enough to do away with property taxes and income taxes, that would be unique.

 

[KrisW]

I think all tax is bad, but I think government is evil, too!

In Florida we DON'T have income tax. We have a low sales tax (still under 7 percent) and low property taxes that are getting still lower. It's an easy formula for success; IF YOU LEAVE PEOPLE MORE OF THEIR OWN MONEY INSTEAD OF STEALING IT IN INCOME TAX, THEY ACTUALLY BUY MORE STUFF AND GENERATE MORE INCOME FOR THE GOVERNMENT VIA A SALES TAX.

This works. It works in Florida, Tennessee, and Texas that I know of. The real deal is that the Income tax is about power, not about getting money to help people. Florida gets more money to help people just with sales tax...

Next, back to communism 101.

I don't buy anyone's sob story of how it was harder for them than me growing up or getting along. I started in rural Kentucky as a child and I know what "dirt poor" really means. It means living in a dirt floor shack in the late 1970's near the Union County line. My parents' choices were the reason I was in that shack. YOUR parents' choices are the reason you lived with gangs and hookers. It is hard truth and bitter to swallow. That's just the way it is.

You know what I did when I knew I was going to be a dad? I saved up every dollar and moved to an area where my kid would have greater benefit. Don't give me any crap about opportunity because I'm not hearing it. I have had the deck stacked against me by decisions of my parents and bad decisions of my own. God didn't strike me with a plague or something. I overcame it and so can anyone else. Bull crap to anyone who says they can't.

Your arguments trying to refute what I have said are all communist garbage. Public school and higher education garbage. I make over 150k a year now because I am in a war zone. ANYONE can do this. I don't want to hear anyone else's sob stories.

Parents are responsible for their kids' upbringing. If they know they are in a bad place, why not move BEFORE kids come into the picture. I'm tired of hearing about the plight of helpless children. It's more communist garbage. Parents are to blame. It's time someone held them accountable. If I have to be that person then so be it.

All of these unfortunate situations are 100% preventable. People not wanting to take responsibility for any of it is the problem.

Your argument against Christians in the settling of the west of the United States is also garbage. You don't state one single fact in your argument, NOT ONE. All you give is conjecture, and generalize by saying "missionairies" and other bull crap. YOU NAME AN ESTABLISHED CHURCH THAT WAS DOING THIS. JUST ONE. You can't because this is revisionist liberal history. The truth of the settling of the west is that the GOVERNMENT is directly to blame for what happened to Native Americans. The exact same idiots that you think are gonna fix your kids' education problem. If the government approves the text books then how do you expect the telling about the government to be fair?

Get real, man. I really want you to open your eyes to what the government is doing. Please take an honest look.

I am not here because of religion at all. I am here because so many ignorant people decided to blow up the world trade center with over 3000 innocent Americans inside. We came here to depose the government that fostered those maniacs. We did that. We can't just leave, because the people don't have a responsible government to look to for aid if we go. If we leave the bad people will just come back from Pakistan and hurt these people again. AND THEN THEY WILL HURT US AGAIN. That is why I am here.

Sorry if you can't see the truth. You have government paid for "free" blinders on. It's not your fault that you were manipulated by them; it will be your fault if you hear the opposing view point and you don't freely investigate the truth. You are blind and being led by evil men.

Start looking up the truth for yourself. You will see that the crime and poverty in the places you grew up in was CAUSED BY THE DEMOCRATS IN CHARGE OF THOSE AREAS. Entitlements and free government money just keep the poor being poor.

More hard truth.