This kid is a moron...

[autonaut]

I remember the j* imprts rusting out badly back in the 80s and early 90s. My Dad bought a 84 Toyota pickup new and I can't remember it without huge rustholes all over it. Back then it was common to see flesh rust stains on the dealership lots under brand new j* imports. Even today, I have seen pictures of 2000s j* pickups snaping in half on shop lifts from hidden frame rust, I think it was a Titan.

Looking at stock SR5 specs, they had 87 HP and 85 lb·ft of torque, with a curb weight of 2,035–2,400 lb. So it wins mainly by having less weight even through a stock Cutlass has 93 more HP, a better power to weight ratio.. I doubt a 70's 350 would be much better since 70s motors have low CR. It's why 80s 305s and 307s made the same or more power than 70s 350s in stock form.

Saving weight and mass is a pretty overlooked area in G bodies, however most modern cars, even modern small cars are overweight. These days cars are built extra heavy, there is a reason the econo boxes from 20 years ago have better mileage than current hybrids. Between crash protection to all the fancy features they offer adds a lot of weight.


Thanks RustyRodger.

'

Not entirely true..

I dont know about the car market i USA, but here in Europe, we have large BMW's and Audi's driving 50% longer a gallon than my old beater Toyotas..
Small cars(econo boxes) here in Denmark get 25km/l easily.. Dont know what that is in gallons though.

 

[cyrus_the_great]

that kid causes all these posts here ? 😀 what a moron

 

[pontiacgp]

that kid causes all these posts here ? 😀 what a moron

the kid didin't cause these posts....someone who was taunted by the kid and had trouble convincing himself he could beat the kid in a race asked for this forum to stoke his ego...

 

[DRIVEN]

So when is all this talking and speculating going to stop and these 2 cars in question going to race? No excuses. Just get er done.

Yes! So much this^^^.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

I remember the j* imprts rusting out badly back in the 80s and early 90s. My Dad bought a 84 Toyota pickup new and I can't remember it without huge rustholes all over it. Back then it was common to see flesh rust stains on the dealership lots under brand new j* imports. Even today, I have seen pictures of 2000s j* pickups snaping in half on shop lifts from hidden frame rust, I think it was a Titan.

Looking at stock SR5 specs, they had 87 HP and 85 lb·ft of torque, with a curb weight of 2,035–2,400 lb. So it wins mainly by having less weight even through a stock Cutlass has 93 more HP, a better power to weight ratio.. I doubt a 70's 350 would be much better since 70s motors have low CR. It's why 80s 305s and 307s made the same or more power than 70s 350s in stock form.

Saving weight and mass is a pretty overlooked area in G bodies, however most modern cars, even modern small cars are overweight. These days cars are built extra heavy, there is a reason the econo boxes from 20 years ago have better mileage than current hybrids. Between crash protection to all the fancy features they offer adds a lot of weight.


Thanks RustyRodger.

'

Not entirely true..

I dont know about the car market i USA, but here in Europe, we have large BMW's and Audi's driving 50% longer a gallon than my old beater Toyotas..
Small cars(econo boxes) here in Denmark get 25km/l easily.. Dont know what that is in gallons though.

Cars sold in the US must meet strict crash protection standards which adds many pounds. US standards are a lot higher than in other countries and their are even current models of cars that aren't approved for US sale. That is besides strict emission standards as well. As a result the cars here require more emission equipment that hinders fuel economy to an extent. So the US versions may not get as good of mileage as your Denmark versions. Also the EU and the US have different testing standards, basically, the EU mandates a series of ideal-condition drives, or ‘cycles’. The car makers know that to get the best figures for these and with a small-engined car that means tuning it in a way that often leads to higher consumption in real life than would otherwise be the case. Diesel cars are still rare here and regular gas here is 85 octane instead of 95 octane.

Don’t even think of comparing US EPA figures with standardized fuel-economy tests from other countries because the test cycles are very different. For example, the European highway rating, called “extra urban,” is higher than the EPA’s by about 30 percent, so a rating on that cycle of, say, 60 mpg, would be closer to 40 in this country. And the US testing mandates faster acceleration rates. (The Euro cycle allows for nearly a minute to accelerate from 0 - 60 MPH).The acceleration rates in the NEDC are laughably slow compared with the EPA's and acceleration rates play a huge role in fuel consumption. Also, the EPA tests with the AC on for a portion of its cycle, while the NEDC doesn't. The mainstream press, not realizing the difference, often complains that automakers refuse to bring efficient models here when, in fact, they may not be all that efficient when measured by U.S. standards.

Additionally, one has to keep a mind on engine sizes in order to compare apples with apples. The Euro models nearly always have smaller base engines, as well as several smaller optional engines not offered in the US market. Take the Jetta Diesel as a clear example. People are saying it gets over 60mpg easy in Europe. Here in the US, the best you can hope for is high 40s, low 50s. You have to resort to extreme hypermiling to get over 60mpg.

91 Honda Civic DX (hatch) = 2127 lbs
pre-2000 Mini Cooper = 1500 lbs
'00 VW GTI = 2700 lbs

'02 Honda Civic SI (hatch) = 2877 lbs
new BMW Mini = 2314 lbs
'05 VW GTI = 2934 lbs

 

[BPTTONE420012]

SO DID YOU RACE HIM???

 

[rustyroger]

Diesel cars are still rare here and regular gas here is 85 octane instead of 95 octane.
87 octane in the UK.

Additionally, one has to keep a mind on engine sizes in order to compare apples with apples. The Euro models nearly always have smaller base engines, as well as several smaller optional engines not offered in the US market. Take the Jetta Diesel as a clear example. People are saying it gets over 60mpg easy in Europe. Here in the US, the best you can hope for is high 40s, low 50s. You have to resort to extreme hypermiling to get over 60mpg.

US gallons are 4/5ths of an Imperial gallon, so a car quoted as 40mpg in the Uk will only manage 32 in the USA.

Roger.

 

[motorheadmike]

The ignorance runs deep in mullet land...

So very few of you have 15 second cars, much less the 13 to 14 seconds needed to beat the average "performance" sport compact. Please stop kidding yourselves and believing the hype in catalogs and magazines.

Then why waste your time hanging out with mullet heads and old slow cars? Sell off your old slow crap and buy a modern car that is faster and better for less money than trying to improve your 30 year old GM POS.

Just because you think most of us ignorant G body owners you look down at so much have 15 second or slower cars is just your assumption and not fact, heck even a 305 can do 13s easy, lots of 3rd gen F body guys can do it. Snobbery and elitism runs deep in GN land.

Truth of the matter is your car is as fast as how much money you are willing to dump into it which includes just the buying price of the car itself and whatever upgrades you buy for it. Besides racing should only be done at the track and never on the street. Only morons street race.

Rather than nut-swinging on the achievements/internet bench racing of other owners - Tell us: what does your 305 run? Can it outrun the common sport compact? I am willing to bet that it can't. And factually speaking very few others can prove the same as the ratio of quick/fast G-bodies to slow ones is pretty wide. I am now accepting videos/time slips.

Amazingly I own 5 G-bodies (and 2 late model GM performance cars - which are superior cars, but far less visceral) right now. Why? Because I am really good at building them. I, like many here, started with a pretty basic setup in my MCSS that ran 14s, then 13s, and then 12s - I beat, and got beat by, a lot of sport compacts along the way. Does my Buick run 11s? Yup. The wagon is probably going to trump both cars in every way (built LS1 and all that). You see my cars aren't slow and they aren't fueled by cubic dollars (simply infused with lots my own labour), and neither are they piloted by an ignorant man who believes his platform to be superior to others - like so many domestic car owners who believe their own BS. Ironically I am a moderator on a large sport compact board so I am pretty well versed in this topic.

The ad hominem about my choice in car shows just how truly weak your argument is. Next time simply refute the central point of the argument: Is the average G-body quicker than a sport compact?

 

[jacobdavis1979]

I was 16 once so il throw my opinion in there. I thought I was hot stuff back then with my bu (yes for anyone who didn't know that was my first car) mainly because the 350 I put in it was a brand new out of the crate Goodwrench 290hp so I thought I could outrun anything( Remember 300hp and 2.28 gear set not the best combo) and I remember a kid who had a dodge neon I cant remember the year but I thought all he did was cut off the muffler and put on a spoiler. Found out later that him and his dad dumped more money in that car than it was worth im talkin dual turbos the works but I didn't know that. We ended up racing I was holding my own with him pretty good. Neither one of us really won because the cops got involved no nobody got a ticket the cop was cool he knew we were just kids and that's how kids are. Anyway my point of the story is don't get involved with some punk who likes to smack talk don't let him get under your skin sometimes you gotta let it go. And if it really bothers you enough then do it at the track in a safe area. I know I sound like a buzz kill but I don't like to see people get hurt or thrown away over stuff like that you know lol.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Snobbery and elitism runs deep in GN land.

Slamming Turbo Buick owners? That's uncalled for. And I happen to enjoy my 20+ second (0-60 mph) Gutlass Supreme.

No personally offence to you intened, but in general the GN/ T-type crowd are not friendly to their G body brethren and take every chance to verbally belittle them and revel in their own snobbery. Granted not every GN and T-type owner is like that but too many are more than happy to perpetuate the negative stereotype of turbo Buick owners which Motorhead Mike demonstrates. Mike slamming G body owners was uncalled for and shows his elitists views over us non turbo G owners, my post was mainly to call him out for his BS. For the record I have been at car meets where GN owners try to start fights with me for installing a SBC into my Regal, just trying to act like bullies. A nice car doesn't make it's owner a decent person.