What makes an LS better than a small block?

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Just gonna go out on a limb here, and ask a very general question to everybody...

how many 19 y.o.'s can afford one of these? Out of those, how many are in College/University?

Just curious is all...this device "could" be cheaper than the heartache one endures if the first tune-up specialist hands him the bill, and it still doesn't run properly.
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okay... so that was 2 questions. my bad!
 
Just gonna go out on a limb here, and ask a very general question to everybody...

how many 19 y.o.'s can afford one of these? Out of those, how many are in College/University?

Just curious is all...this device "could" be cheaper than the heartache one endures if the first tune-up specialist hands him the bill, and it still doesn't run properly. View attachment 60648

okay... so that was 2 questions. my bad!

can' put a price on one of those, in all the years I have been working on my car I can't add up the hours I put into my carbs and now with that tool no more guessing.
 
Well, this is a lively thread .... 😀

1. It's still a mystery to some, but a daily driver doesn't use much HP. Low-RPM torque is what it uses and what you feel. HP is torque x RPM. A daily driver has little use for high RPMs. Or air flow, or exhaust flow. Low-RPM torque is actually improved by restricted exhaust flow.

2. If you use the factory FI and computer on an LS, you must match it to the transmission it came with. On top of that, it's drive-by-wire. There's no throttle cable. You step on the gas, that's just a hint to the computer about what it might want to think about doing with the throttle plate.

3. The main factor in fuel economy is just vehicle weight. You make fairly minor differences with other factors, maybe an MPG here and there. But there's a point of diminishing returns with technological complexity and cost, and the sheer number of things that can (and therefore will) go wrong. If you try, it's still possible to build a Gen I gas hog for a daily driver, certainly easier than an LS, but it doesn't have to be.

My 3 cents worth. Buy 2 get 1 free.
 
Well, this is a lively thread .... 😀

1. It's still a mystery to some, but a daily driver doesn't use much HP. Low-RPM torque is what it uses and what you feel. HP is torque x RPM. A daily driver has little use for high RPMs. Or air flow, or exhaust flow. Low-RPM torque is actually improved by restricted exhaust flow.

2. If you use the factory FI and computer on an LS, you must match it to the transmission it came with. On top of that, it's drive-by-wire. There's no throttle cable. You step on the gas, that's just a hint to the computer about what it might want to think about doing with the throttle plate.

3. The main factor in fuel economy is just vehicle weight. You make fairly minor differences with other factors, maybe an MPG here and there. But there's a point of diminishing returns with technological complexity and cost, and the sheer number of things that can (and therefore will) go wrong. If you try, it's still possible to build a Gen I gas hog for a daily driver, certainly easier than an LS, but it doesn't have to be.

My 3 cents worth. Buy 2 get 1 free.
GEN III motors are drive by cable. My brother's setup is a GEN IV long block running through a Lingenfelter conversion box to convert the 58x crank signal to 24x so we could use a GEN III computer and a drive by cable throttle body.
 
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GEN III motors are drive by cable. My brother's setup is a GEN IV long block running through a Lingenfelter conversion box to convert the 58x crank signal to 24x so we could use a GEN III computer and a drive by cable throttle body.

There are lots of Operating System modifications that can be made to the OEM ECM; including swapping out the various OEM transmission applications.

I taught myself how to tune Gen III, IV, and the newer GDI VVT stuff with HP Tuners - well worth the investment in self.

I want to echo what was said earlier about the Total Cost Involved in an LS swap. Both the financial and time resources are extensively higher than just dropping in a SBC. I am living proof of that.
 
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GEN III motors are drive by cable. My brother's setup is a GEN IV long block running through a Lingenfelter conversion box to convert the 58x crank signal to 24x so we could use a GEN III computer and a drive by cable throttle body.

I wasn't technically correct. Late GEN III is drive by wire, like an 06 truck. The Corvette went DBW earlier.
 
Many later SBCs came with roller cams, with 880 Vortec SBCs being the best factory SBC. With 2 vs 4 bolt mains, there are arguments wither 4 bolts really are stronger or weaker. 4 bolts originally came out in weaker cast iron SBCs. Aluminum is weaker than cast iron and why LS1s have 6 bolt mains. Aluminum blocks are too weak for towing which is why trucks still use cast iron.

One of the reasons LS last so long is they are designed to run warm at 200 degrees, which can also be applied to SBCs. 160 t stats are really outdated, and Ford figured it out back in the 60s.

While you can, but not always get decent deals on used LS engines, installing them into a old car is not cheap. Then there are legality issues too. A carb LS is automatically illegal in any G body as it disables many of the obd2 emission controls. Even keeping the Efi, a LS swap can still be illegal because the obd2 enhanced evap system is not compatible with factory g body gas tanks. The only legal LS swap are the expensive crate Erod kits. Then there is custom exhaust, custom driveshaft. Some of the newer auto transmissions for LS engines require expanding the trans tunnel.

Another issue is parts, both replacement and performance LS parts are more expensive than SBC parts. Adapter parts and swap kits are also expensive. Then to tune a LS engine with EFI requires $650 or more tuning software and training. Otherwise you have to take the car to a tuner shop which also won't be cheap. Mail away tunes are a crapshoot and aftermarket self leaning efi kits can months to self program themselves, and not always correctly. Overall, a LS swap is a large investment and requires learning complete new technology.

I read a car magazine article last year that went on how great the base V6 engines in the new Camaros are. That it makes more horsepower and torque stock than LS1s and 5.3s and that LS1 5.3 guys need to wake up and realize they are already becoming dated and should look at base V6 Camaro swaps in the near future. Progress is a b*tch at times.
Why would you use a newer v6 instead of a newer v8? Doesn't make sense
 
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Why would you use a newer v6 instead of a newer v8? Doesn't make sense

The new V6 is a great motor. If you want to build a 330 HP 3100lb commuter/daily driver G-body that gets a true 30mpg, the LFX/LGX V6 is the motor to do it.

As junkyards fill up with these motors over the next 5 years, you will see many people swapping these in.
 
First off, thanks to everyone for their input. I know this topic has been discussed many times, but I see nothing wrong with it being revived every now and then. New technology arises, peoples minds change, etc. Anyways..

If my car isn't going to be seeing upwards of 5000rpm too often as a daily driver, maybe a low-rpm torque machine is what I would enjoy the most. At least I could smoke an LS off the line 😀 haha

Getting 15mpg with the 305 sucks. If I could get 20-25mpg with a 350 or other Gen I, then I am completely fine with that. No need for an expensive LS swap for my purposes, although it would be a cool deal. Maybe on a future weekend project car. Like jiho said, Ill see about focusing on the weight department for mileage.
 
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