Why do some people get so upset about low emissions.

[pontiacgp]

The emissions test with current cars is just a money grab. You go spend 10's of thousands on a car and if there is no check engine light on then the car is operating proper and the emission are within the parameters but they still charge you about $40 to give you a pass. With our cars we should all be called green cause we have kept thousands of pounds out of the recycling yard and we recycle many parts that are in the recycling yard.

 

[pencero]

^ Yes I am 85% w/ everything you just said and I was more aiming my earlier post at states like Cali / Mass / and Connecticut which are trying to go above and beyond where the law has ever went before and force older used cars to the scrap pile by attempting them to require to meet newer standards than they are capable of meeting. A few years ago I even posted the article w/ several senators and John Kerry discussing the possibility of requiring black boxes on toll road bound cars and requiring older cars with a tall trunk height to install rear-view cameras. The type of unnecessary costly repairs that would cause a car to prematurely hit the scrap yard in decent running condition when it could have been restored; those type of laws were clearly not instituted by 'car guys' and it's worthy of scoffing when you see some of the extremely inefficient means of transportation some of the people behind those type of discussions and bills pull up in; hypocrites to the death!

 

[rustyroger]

^ Yes I am 85% w/ everything you just said and I was more aiming my earlier post at states like Cali / Mass / and Connecticut which are trying to go above and beyond where the law has ever went before and force older used cars to the scrap pile by attempting them to require to meet newer standards than they are capable of meeting. A few years ago I even posted the article w/ several senators and John Kerry discussing the possibility of requiring black boxes on toll road bound cars and requiring older cars with a tall trunk height to install rear-view cameras. The type of unnecessary costly repairs that would cause a car to prematurely hit the scrap yard in decent running condition when it could have been restored; those type of laws were clearly not instituted by 'car guys' and it's worthy of scoffing when you see some of the extremely inefficient means of transportation some of the people behind those type of discussions and bills pull up in; hypocrites to the death!

Not often we see eye to eye Penchero, but I do agree with you here.
Over here older cars don't have to comply with standards they were never designed to meet when new. All cars have to be roadworthy, with efficient brakes, working lights, and be structurally sound, but only to the legal requirements current when they were built. Seat belts not required for pre 1966 cars for example.
The authorities take the entirely reasonable and pragmatic view that there are simply not enough older cars to make any difference in the whole scheme of today.
I'm surprised that your elected authorities put such retrospective measures in place, how come they get elected in the first place?.
I also think they are not seeing the whole picture, someone who has to take his old car to the junkyard then has to replace it if he wans to hold down a job in most cases. How much pollution is pumped into the atmosphere to build the new one?. It doesn't matter long term if the car is built in America or somewhere else. Most likely the poor guy will have to buy a cheap import, not helping the US economy much.

Roger.

 

[82GPLJ455]

[quottesncero"]^ Yes I am 85% w/ everything you just said and I was more aiming my earlier post at states like Cali / Mass / and Connecticut which are trying to go above and beyond where the law has ever went before and force older used cars to the scrap pile by attempting them to require to meet newer standards than they are capable of meeting. A few years ago I even posted the article w/ several senators and John Kerry discussing the possibility of requiring black boxes on toll road bound cars and requiring older cars with a tall trunk height to install rear-view cameras. The type of unnecessary costly repairs that would cause a car to prematurely hit the scrap yard in decent running condition when it could have been restored; those type of laws were clearly not instituted by 'car guys' and it's worthy of scoffing when you see some of the extremely inefficient means of transportation some of the people behind those type of discussions and bills pull up in; hypocrites to the death![/quote]

I dont see mass requiring older cars to meet the newer requirement.im a mechanic and live in mass.we dont even have the dyno emissions test anymore.now they just plug into the obd port,no check engine light,good to go.older than a specified year,no emissions test.i forget the cut off for this year but i think it 98 and older.the emissions test is done every 2 years.

 

[DRIVEN]

One other contributing factor is that older cars are just less common in much of the US compare to the west coast. I work for a small independent shop and routinely work on cars that are 15-20 years old. The average car in my bay is 10 years old with 150K on it and it's not uncommon to see them with 250-300K. Our cars don't just rust away like many other parts of the country. I think that's why older cars are exempted earlier in "rustier" areas. There just aren't enough of them to matter.

 

[pencero]

The dyno test was exactly the 1 I had heard was ridiculous but it's good to hear that it didn't last very long. It's too bad laws like that have to pass and cause lots of cars to be scrapped, or more often people to lose money at least, before people can get them repealed. I think somewhere between a rusty POS billowing clouds of black smoke and smog nazis sending thousands of cars to their premature death is a middle ground; it's too bad the majority of people in congress feel it has to be 'one way or the other' of these two very different extremes. I think it's clear which side the current administration would take and they made it clear with 'cash for clunkers' program. That type of legislation was a malicious intent to commit financial crimes against the future generation of impoverished adolescents; thousands of perfectly good potential 'first cars' and 'college cars' were destroyed. When Marx said 'Democracy is the road to socialism' he was clearly talking about the Obama administration.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Usually here in the US, cars only have to meet the standards from their model year, a 87 must meet 87 standards and so forth. The only time I am aware of when a old car must meet newer standards if it has a more modern power train swapped in, ie, a 87 with a 2012 engine swap is now considered a 2012 car and must meet emission standards of 2012 instead of 1987 for example. Which to me seems fair enough.

As for emissions, most engines will burn pretty clean if they are maintained and tuned correctly. Of course Tailpipe emissions are only one source of pollution, there are also crankcase vapors and fuel tank vapors. PCV takes care of the crankcase vapors and evap takes care of the gas tank while keeping the tank cleaner than open venting. So some of the emission systems are good.

 

[pontiacgp]

I was talking to someone who has an Audi S4. He has modified the engine and runs no cats but he still passes the E test as he has masked the modifications and has adjusted the position of the O2. There is no way he would pass a sniff test but that test is not done, they plug into the OBD II and if everything checks out it passes. I don't imagine he is the only one and I would suspect the gov knows about this happening but they are happy to collect the fees for the emissions test.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Modern OBD2, cars usually don't get a sniffer test. Instead they plug into the OBD2, aldl port and use the car's own on board sensors to analyze the exhaust, check for evap systems leaks, and check for trouble codes. It is cheaper for the state that way.

 

[rustyroger]

I was talking to someone who has an Audi S4. He has modified the engine and runs no cats but he still passes the E test as he has masked the modifications and has adjusted the position of the O2. There is no way he would pass a sniff test but that test is not done, they plug into the OBD II and if everything checks out it passes. I don't imagine he is the only one and I would suspect the gov knows about this happening but they are happy to collect the fees for the emissions test.

If one or two knowledgeable people modify their cars like that then it's not worth pursuing them, if it becomes a common practice then the authorities will step on them.

Roger.