What did you do to your non-G Body project today [2024 edition]

CopperNick said:

Stude, Uhm, Two door or more door? I am aware from your post that it is a legacy vehicle but any thoughts on a late model Avanti engine with the factory blower mounted on it? The Avantis were not the epitome of automotive beauty but they had some power to them. A little more power to get up and go with and something unique to boggle the minds of the mindless at the coffee breaks.



Nick

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It's a more door, the engine runs pretty good. We have a shake at idle I have been chasing that I believe shouldn't be there, when compared to the Willy's and Plymouth flatheads, those things are smooth idling.

Those avanti's are pretty sharp, and I doubt we'd find one, haha.

liquidh8 said:

It's a more door, the engine runs pretty good. We have a shake at idle I have been chasing that I believe shouldn't be there, when compared to the Willy's and Plymouth flatheads, those things are smooth idling.

Those avanti's are pretty sharp, and I doubt we'd find one, haha.

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Is it a flathead as well? Might be able to ask my brother if he knows anything to look for.
Ok, did get ahold of him. Check your compression and see if it’s fairly close to matching each other. After that he said it would be definitely mechanical. FYI: if you have never looked at cost of rebuilding it , I can remember he said one time that it’s not cheap. The bearings are Babbitt. I’m sure you have a book on it. Wish I still had my repair manual that covered it.

Okay, just by way of comparison, modern bearings, both mains and rods, are the shell variety, meaning that they are a half circle shaped item that is snapped into place and held there by friction and/or locating tangs.

Babbit is a type of soft metal bearing material that is literally heated up until it is a liquid and then physically poured into sockets in the bottom end webs where the main journals would be found, Once poured and allowed to cool and harden, it then has to be shaved/machined, line bored to the factory spec. The main caps get the same treatment. Babbit was commonly used for Model A, B and Flathead motors pre WWII.

A fast Google search gave me this definition of Babbitt metal: Babbit, originally formulated in 1839, is an alloy of tin or lead, copper, and antimony used as a rolling contact surface in plain bearings because of its low coefficient of friction, good cyclic load support and lubrication properties, and resistance to corrosion.

The actual method for renewing worn or damaged babbit surfaces is termed Bearing re-burring, and it is a refurbishing process that involves the repair and resurfacing of worn or damaged bearings. This process includes removing the old material, preparing the surface, and applying a new layer of anti-friction material, known as babbitt.

Apparently it is not just a single alloy but comes in several variants according to applicaton, such as

Babbit 2 Babbit 5X Babbit type 7 Babbit 13​

Thing with dealing with babbit is that it is not a process that can be done in a home or general garage setting, The engine would have to come out, be dismantled, sent to a machine shop that specializes in the process and that can not only remove the old material but pour and machine the replacement.

Other thing to be aware of is that Babbit, because it can have Lead as a component, is probably toxic and poisonous and the preparation process is probably expensive due to the costs of disposal and safe handling.

Moreover, if that isn't bad enough by itself, it's not only the lead but apparently Antimony also comes with major health and handling warnings such as "Breathing air contaminated with antimony can cause eye and lung irritation, heart and lung damage, stomach pains, diarrhea, vomiting, and stomach ulcers". Beyond that, Ingestion of large doses of antimony may cause stomach pains and vomiting.

With thanks to Google for supplying the reference material.

As for the Avanti plug, was not thinking about trying to score a whole one, way too much $$$$$. Was thinking of one of the Arizona or inland California salvage and parts yards and possibly just scoring the engine as a core or pull out from a wreck.


Nick

CopperNick said:

Okay, just by way of comparison, modern bearings, both mains and rods, are the shell variety, meaning that they are a half circle shaped item that is snapped into place and held there by friction and/or locating tangs.

Babbit is a type of soft metal bearing material that is literally heated up until it is a liquid and then physically poured into sockets in the bottom end webs where the main journals would be found, Once poured and allowed to cool and harden, it then has to be shaved/machined, line bored to the factory spec. The main caps get the same treatment. Babbit was commonly used for Model A, B and Flathead motors pre WWII.

A fast Google search gave me this definition of Babbitt metal: Babbit, originally formulated in 1839, is an alloy of tin or lead, copper, and antimony used as a rolling contact surface in plain bearings because of its low coefficient of friction, good cyclic load support and lubrication properties, and resistance to corrosion.

The actual method for renewing worn or damaged babbit surfaces is termed Bearing re-burring, and it is a refurbishing process that involves the repair and resurfacing of worn or damaged bearings. This process includes removing the old material, preparing the surface, and applying a new layer of anti-friction material, known as babbitt.

Apparently it is not just a single alloy but comes in several variants according to applicaton, such as

Babbit 2 Babbit 5X Babbit type 7 Babbit 13​

Thing with dealing with babbit is that it is not a process that can be done in a home or general garage setting, The engine would have to come out, be dismantled, sent to a machine shop that specializes in the process and that can not only remove the old material but pour and machine the replacement.

Other thing to be aware of is that Babbit, because it can have Lead as a component, is probably toxic and poisonous and the preparation process is probably expensive due to the costs of disposal and safe handling.

Moreover, if that isn't bad enough by itself, it's not only the lead but apparently Antimony also comes with major health and handling warnings such as "Breathing air contaminated with antimony can cause eye and lung irritation, heart and lung damage, stomach pains, diarrhea, vomiting, and stomach ulcers". Beyond that, Ingestion of large doses of antimony may cause stomach pains and vomiting.

With thanks to Google for supplying the reference material.

As for the Avanti plug, was not thinking about trying to score a whole one, way too much $$$$$. Was thinking of one of the Arizona or inland California salvage and parts yards and possibly just scoring the engine as a core or pull out from a wreck.


Nick

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As a Model-A guy, there are limited facilities these days that actually repair/make & machine Babbit motors. We have one (flat 4-banger) on a stand now that needs Babbit work (the rear main shattered into multiple pieces). It was running fine when we pulled the engine to determine what the noise was (under load) & the Babbit pieces remained in place so damage to the crank isn't noticeable, but you can't just grab one off the shelf. The nearest place to us now is a couple hours drive.

Ugly1 said:

Is it a flathead as well? Might be able to ask my brother if he knows anything to look for.
Ok, did get ahold of him. Check your compression and see if it’s fairly close to matching each other. After that he said it would be definitely mechanical. FYI: if you have never looked at cost of rebuilding it , I can remember he said one time that it’s not cheap. The bearings are Babbitt. I’m sure you have a book on it. Wish I still had my repair manual that covered it.

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It is a flathead. Thanks for reaching out! We haven't done a compression check yet, and the carb is still suspect. To be honest, it's going to get driven a few times as it has been sitting for 10 years, and will go into storage for the winter. I'm not opposed to a rebuild and we already rebuilt the engine in the Willy's, but it is low on the list of things to do, haha.

scoti said:

As a Model-A guy, there are limited facilities these days that actually repair/make & machine Babbit motors. We have one (flat 4-banger) on a stand now that needs Babbit work (the rear main shattered into multiple pieces). It was running fine when we pulled the engine to determine what the noise was (under load) & the Babbit pieces remained in place so damage to the crank isn't noticeable, but you can't just grab one off the shelf. The nearest place to us now is a couple hours drive.

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Just for a wow moment and a giggle moment. Back around 1989 a gentleman drove his all original paint Model A from Ohio to NH as he had moved to the state.
Now for the giggle, my dad had found out this had happened because the garage it was at was asked to do a tuneup on it. They couldn’t figure out how to set the timing. At the time my dad and I ran a radiator shop and he was well known for working on pretty much anything automotive. He got the call and went down to the garage. After poking fun at the mechanic how simple fords of that era were he told the man what to do. No fancy diagnostic machines or special tools.
Made my old man’s week! Thanks for the memories it brings me.

pagrunt said:

Started a new car build for the Jr. Mechanic, a '58 Plymouth Fury but...in cardboard cause last minute he wanted have a "Christine" themed costume. Have the sides, front/grill, hood & wheels cut out. Best part it needs to be assembled & painted for tomorrow evening. Have to love those last minute things the kids want. Now back to the build.

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Pictures!!

Got that sumbitch to do more than pop off. Had to whittle down a woodruff key to fit so the heavy *ss flywheel would stop rolling over whatever I would try and use as a key. Flywheel moves, spark timing moves with it. It's a 1/8 key but it's like a needed one that was 1/8 by 1/4 by 1".

MrSony said:

Got that sumbitch to do more than pop off. Had to whittle down a woodruff key to fit so the heavy *ss flywheel would stop rolling over whatever I would try and use as a key. Flywheel moves, spark timing moves with it. It's a 1/8 key but it's like a needed one that was 1/8 by 1/4 by 1".

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Determination + ingenuity = run you b*st*rd!