1986 442 project (street and strip)

[bfurches]

Mine was 19.5. My friends was 20. Our engines were in tune.

What was your idle at when you took the readings?
Mine is set at 750 in park and roughly 600-620 in gear.....that could be our difference of 4....

...as far as timing...on 93 octane, on a carb that I am still playing with and dialing in, 30* is more than safe and conservative. Once the carb is final tune, I will add timing...its not pinning...anywhere in the rpm range for that matter...so how is it a problem? The thing is not on kill mode lol (not that a stock 307 even has one)

As for mph and et...no reason car cant go 12.0-12.5 @ 108-112ish
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...look, you clearly have your opinions. Im not one for bolt-ons or buying tons of aftermarket parts...my other projects have reflected that. I am pretty good a taking just about nothing and making it run pretty decent, and I dont see this car being much different. I've got not problem answering questions or taking constructive criticism...but lets just not have this turn into a pissing contest.

 

[maverick_124]

idk about these cars, but iv never heard of a car being 620rpm in gear..that sounds extremely low to me..i personally never set my cars to below 700 in gear

 

[bfurches]

idk about these cars, but iv never heard of a car being 620rpm in gear..that sounds extremely low to me..i personally never set my cars to below 700 in gear

spec under the hood is 650 for the quadrajet in gear warm I believe, it has a pretty tight stock cam.

 

[maverick_124]

really? never heard of that..props to olds for pulling that off i don't, off the top of my head, any cars now a day that can pull that off w/o knocking/stumbling.


whats the numbers on the stock cam anyway??

 

[DoubleV]

Your performance goals for your 307 are completely unrealistic.

Are you familiar with how timing advance works? If so, you'd know that performance can be affected greatly by it. During WOT, an average low compression Olds engine would want somewhere in the neighborhood of 36 total timing all in by about 3000 rpm's. As I said, this is just a ballpark. You're 6 degrees short of that. 6 degrees makes a big difference.

Also, a puny 307 will struggle to crank an engine with 30* timing especially when hot.

Just because you can't hear pinging, doesn't mean it ain't there and with what I hear about the sensitivity of the 7A swirl port engines, they like to ping more often than others. Your engine is most likely not in good tune either, which can make things even worse.

And then of course there's milage. With no vacuum advance, your milage will suck. Do you know how much timing advance your average Olds sees during lets say a typical cruise on the highway? Alot more than 30 Try 40+. Stock with the CCC system, your engine was seeing more than 50 degrees of timing at part throttle. Yes you heard that correctly.

Retarded timing can cause an engine to run hotter too.

So tell me again why you wouldn't just get a cheap junkyard old school distributor, slap it in, and set it all up correctly?

Now what really makes me scratch my head here is you want to install a turbo, but you won't even do what is necessary to make your car run correctly right now without the turbo. You'd go through the PITA and cost of fabbing up a complete turbo set-up but you don't want to mess with your distributor because it's 'fine' and 'you're not looking for crazy performance'? You don't think mid to low 12's is crazy performance and you think you're going to honestly achieve that with a swirlport 307 with incorrect timing? If you can't tune your engine correctly now, do you think you'll be able to with a turbo?

I don't say any of this to be a dick, but rather to point out to you that you need to do alot more homework on this stuff, otherwise you're going to be out alot of time and money.

In conclusion, dump the CCC distributor along with the turbo idea. My opinion of course.

 

[bfurches]

DoubleV I dont think you read my response? I am clearly aware that my timing is not setup for peak performance...I am still dailing in the carb? What are you missing about that? Ive already stated TWICE that I know I am well under what the peak timing should be....so whats your point?

Why have I not purchased a vacuum advance dizzy? because I plan on letting the MSD 6al2 control the timing...no sense in spending money multiple times for a project I am just about ready to start?

...and like I kindly asked...i would prefer if we could keep this from turning into a pissing contest. I would like to have this be one place where I can outline my build, not a performance debate.
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I was told that my 4040lb 4 door caprice was going to be a dog with its flat top iron headed 350 (stock production iron heads at that)...but on a small shot that car wen 12.3x @ 112-114 with bone stock suspension...

The Scion xA I used to own ran 17.2 bone stock with its little 1.5 and a 5spd...after I boosted the stock motor and played around with a piggy-back tune, it ran 13.9x @ 98mph...

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...all I am saying is if you want to try and laugh at what im doing....you should really save it until the end.

 

[bfurches]

whats the numbers on the stock cam anyway??

To the best of my knowledge...the 1986-87 HO 307s had factory roller .435/.438 lift and 194/210 duration. Not sure on the lobe seperation, I have yet to find it...

 

[DoubleV]

DoubleV I dont think you read my response? I am clearly aware that my timing is not setup for peak performance...I am still dailing in the carb? What are you missing about that? Ive already stated TWICE that I know I am well under what the peak timing should be....so whats your point?

Lets get the facts straight here my friend, everything I posted was there to help you, not bash you. If you took it as bashing, then that's your problem.

You most certainly did NOT say anything about correcting your distributor issue. You simply said you were going 'add more timing'. That's what you said. So I'm not really missing a darn thing here am I? I'm just going off what YOU posted.

Why have I not purchased a vacuum advance dizzy? because I plan on letting the MSD 6al2 control the timing...no sense in spending money multiple times for a project I am just about ready to start?

As stated, you only mentioned 'adding timing'. Nothing more.

...and like I kindly asked...i would prefer if we could keep this from turning into a pissing contest...

Are you seriously so thin-skinned you take any disagreement with you as a pissing contest? Geez...

I was told that my 4040lb 4 door caprice was going to be a dog with its flat top iron headed 350 (stock production iron heads at that)...but on a small shot that car wen 12.3x @ 112-114 with bone stock suspension...

So you're comparing that engine to your swirlport 307? Apples and oranges my friend. You obviously aren't familiar with the swirl port 307's short comings which is why I said you need to do more homework on the subject...ya know...to try to help you. It's apparent you don't want anyones input or help. You just want people to say 'kewl dude, you're gonna turbo a 307 and run low 12's! Awesome!'.

The Scion xA I used to own ran 17.2 bone stock with its little 1.5 and a 5spd...after I boosted the stock motor and played around with a piggy-back tune, it ran 13.9x @ 98mph...

And this is relevant how? Yes power adders can and do make awesome power. Always have, always will, but that doesn't mean you can slap a turbo on any old engine and get great results ( AND LIVE! ) because some engines ( like your 307 ), weren't designed for that. You'll find out soon enough I suspect.

...all I am saying is if you want to try and laugh at what im doing....you should really save it until the end.

I wasn't laughing at you in any way, shape, or form. I was simply disagreeing with you and trying to help you, but I have to admit, I'm getting a good chuckle about it NOW because of your attitude. :lol:

 

[bfurches]

No attitude on my end man...

You can say that the comparisons are "apples to oranges" ....but are they really all that different? End of the day...they were all cars that ran WAY better then they should (to the typical bench racer), and neither one blew up, fell apart or ever skipped a beat....and that's just two examples 😳 (do a search on the toyota 1.5 offset cranks and try to figure out how that car manage to hold up for 30k miles on boost)

I apologize for not explaining the full build up front if that caused you some confusion lol.

As for not wanting input...its the farthest thing from that. If I wanted to read a thousand posts about how you can't do anything with a 307...I would use google lol. I know you think i need to do some homework, but I have...and after completing my homework, I don't see my goal as being too far off.

If you have any type of input that can help me with the build that's awesome and I would love to hear it, but I don't need another guy, who hasn't tried it telling me in theory it won't work. That's all I am trying to avoid is having a build thread that is 30 pages of "I read online that motor is garbage and this is never going to work." (and no that was not a sarcastic jab at you, just a general example of what 50 others will jump on the bandwagon and say)

 

[Blake442]

well that's great.. cause my car is an 86 😀 least, the title says its an 86 haha but my car looks exactly like this one..i cant find anything online of the differences between a normal cutlass supreme and a 442

442's will have a "9" in the 8th digit of the VIN, denoting the 442-specific H.O. 307.
Regular 307 Cutlass's will have a "Y" in the 8th digit, and 3.8 V6 cars will have an "A" if I recall correctly.