Im wondering how well this combination could work with a 350, how in depth would it be installing the computer crap and stuff with the trans, i may have availablility to the 3.73 rear and 200r4 from a 442 at the junkyard and was wondering how they did (gas mileage, too much acceleration not enough top speed? that kinda thing) I dont know a ton about transmissions but i would like to know what i would need to convert my v6 stock setup to a 350 with the 200r4. i would ditch the computer controled carb for a manuel intake and carb setup but i dont know anything else about the computer in my 82 cutlass...
200 R4 and 3.73
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Well, if it is a 442, PULL THAT AXLE!!!!! It's a rare 8.5 10 bolt and is hard to come by. I may not run that much gear, but you can get by with it. Also, the 442 has a stronger variant of the TH 200 4R than anything but a turbo Regal, and is worth getting. I wish I could find a donor car like that! For a 350 Chevy conversion, read my sticky at the top of the page. It details all that is required for a smog legal conversion. I did that swap years ago, and have since done most of what is needed to make it work flawlessly. If you have any questions, post them here, or PM me. (preferably post em here so that others can benefit from the discussion). I am more than happy to help others however I can with my knowledge. If you wish to do a 350 Buick conversion, there are others here who have done it and can guide you in that direction. 350 Oldsmobile or Pontiac? The info is on the forum somewhere, or post a new thread. 1957 350 B wedge Mopar swap? Well... good luck. You're on your own on that one... :wink:
Oh, and as to if it is too much gear, that all depends on what engine you are running. There are plenty of ways to build a 350, and the actual torque curve and RPM band you will use determines the gearing needs of the car. I have tons of low end torque, and do not need a lot of gear to accelerate well. If you lack low rpm cylinder pressure, you can use more gear. There are too many variables to consider without actually knowing the specifics of the 350 you want to build.
Oh, and as to if it is too much gear, that all depends on what engine you are running. There are plenty of ways to build a 350, and the actual torque curve and RPM band you will use determines the gearing needs of the car. I have tons of low end torque, and do not need a lot of gear to accelerate well. If you lack low rpm cylinder pressure, you can use more gear. There are too many variables to consider without actually knowing the specifics of the 350 you want to build.
Agreed - if it has the original 8.5" rear and KZF 200-4R, they are worth a good buck. Even if you don't use them, you can sell them for a good profit depending what you can buy them for. An open 8.5" is worth about $4-500 and a posi 8.5" is worth $7-900. The trans is worth $3-500 in good shape. 3.73's with a 200-4R is a great combo IMO, great acceleration and the OD keeps the RPM down on the highway. I was able to get over 20mpg with that combo in my SS with a mild 350 and the stock ccc system.
You look like you have actual 15x7 442 wheels on your car now. Assuming the red car in your pic is yours. Anyway the vin9 307 is only worth something to someone looking to do a 442 concors type restoration. But as they said grab the trans, driveshaft, and rear. The 200-4r out of the 442 will shift at 4,800 instead of 4,200 like a regular 200-4r has better parts and will shift into overdrive at wot. Naturally a good shift kit such as the one CKPerformance sells and a large cheap transmission cooler are always money well spent on a 200-4r for any type of performance aplication.
I think KrisW on this board has a 350 Buick for sale if you are looking for a drop in replacement for your Buick v6. If you want to convert to a chevy read the above referenced link for info on moveing the electrical, fuel lines, getting motor mounts etc. Also don't forget you would need to get brackets for the power steering, altenator, and AC assuming you want to keep it.
Also you might want to get from the donor 442 the front & rear sway bars, bucket seats, console, steering wheel for the floor shift, and the ralley guage pack. Good luck!
I think KrisW on this board has a 350 Buick for sale if you are looking for a drop in replacement for your Buick v6. If you want to convert to a chevy read the above referenced link for info on moveing the electrical, fuel lines, getting motor mounts etc. Also don't forget you would need to get brackets for the power steering, altenator, and AC assuming you want to keep it.
Also you might want to get from the donor 442 the front & rear sway bars, bucket seats, console, steering wheel for the floor shift, and the ralley guage pack. Good luck!
I would also look into pulling the fast ratio steering box as well. If it still has the wheels, grab them too as well as the upper door panel emblems that say 442. The seats are common to other Cutlasses, as is most of the interior. However, a good console ot power buckets may be worth pulling too as they are getting hard to come by. The dual snorkel air filter housing is also a desirable item as it is 442 specific. You could probably get anywhere from $50-150 on E Bay for just the air filter base.
i already got the dual snorkel, and the wheels from my car are off the 442 donor, the interior is essentially gutted and i dont particularly mind the idea of having the auto floor shift with the bench seats, i think that would be kinda neat. Also would the engine out of my car be a buick engine because my father is kinda pushing me to put the 307 in my car but im leaning towards a 350, which brand of engine would bolt up to my stock v6 engine mounts? He was pushing for the 307 due to the fact that both were olds and they would bolt up but that may not be the case afterall, idk. If i do decide to do the swap, my main worry is all the computer conversion, im not really sure what i'd be getting into with the trans, would the trans be able to stand alone without any computer or whats going on with that. I plan on stopping in to the junkyard sometime in the next 2 weeks to see what he wants for the trans and rear, with my engine mounts im not sure if the driveshaft would need to be that length...
The funny thing is, I think all G body 2 doors use the same driveshaft length no matter which of the 3 automatic transmissions they came with, and the yokes are the same too. As for what you have, it is a Buick engine. There is no Oldsmobile V6, only the putrid (w/o turbo) Buick 3.8/4.1 and Chevy 200/229/262 V6 engines. I would not spend the time or effort to put ANY 305, or 307 in your car. GM only made one 5 liter V8 with good performance. It was made from 1967-69 and called the 302. I would go with either a Buick 350 or a Chevy 327/350/400 and call it a day. If you really want an Olds engine, use a proper 330/350/403 or a 425/455. Skip the 307. It is not worth the investment in time or money. According to one of my Oldsmobile brochures from 1985, the HO 307 powered 442 did 0-60 in 9.8 seconds. That is with all the help the 3.73 gears, a roller cam and a dual snorkel air filter could give it. The MC SS did it about 2 seconds faster with a similar rated L69 HO 305. You may be able to get a 307 to bark, but that is only because it is a dog. Arf!
As for the electronics with the transmission, it is not a big deal. The trans will work and shift without the computer. All the computer does is control the lockup of the torque converter. There are kits out there that do this with no computer and they are not that expensive. If you live in a non-Nazi state and have no inspections, you can just chuck the computer and run a proper Quadrajet and HEI distributor like I did. If not, and you have an under hood inspection, you will want all the computer and smog stuff to run a Olds 307 or Chevy 305 (depending on which family of engines you go with), but with an aftermarket chip and slightly richer secondary metering rods. The chip will give you more total timing and the rods will allow for more secondary enrichment as the WOT is not computer controlled, only part throttle is in a GM CCC system. You will also want a free flowing exhaust that runs a single 3 in cat. Get the downpipe for a L69 Monte ( VIN G) If running a Chevy, and the after cat for a Grand National no matter which engine you use. The GN systems tend to be better designed and have identical placement to a Monte, but some catalogs do not list them as such ( Summit being one of them). Then have an exhaust shop adapt the 3 in cat between the 2. Just avoid the Dynomax system like the plague as it bottlenecks down to 2.5 in for about a foot, restricting flow. If you order a system for a LG4 150 HP 305, it will come set up for a 2.25 in single cat and hurt performance. For the Olds, I am unsure if they used the Vette's oval inlet and outlet (conveniently a slightly smushed piece of 3 in tubing)catalytic converter like the HO 305 MC and Camaro did, so you would have to check and see. It is not a simple swap, but it is a simple swap. It all bolts together if you have the right pieces, but you need a lot of pieces to make it all happy. A good donor car is nice, as all of the little BS adds up quickly.
The difference between a 231 2bbl and a good V8 will be night and day. Couple it with a mild gear, and you will love it. There are no real drawbacks to a swap done right, with a conservative engine combo other than a little less highway MPG. The added torque will make it more fuel efficient in the city and will require less throttle to get it moving.
As for the electronics with the transmission, it is not a big deal. The trans will work and shift without the computer. All the computer does is control the lockup of the torque converter. There are kits out there that do this with no computer and they are not that expensive. If you live in a non-Nazi state and have no inspections, you can just chuck the computer and run a proper Quadrajet and HEI distributor like I did. If not, and you have an under hood inspection, you will want all the computer and smog stuff to run a Olds 307 or Chevy 305 (depending on which family of engines you go with), but with an aftermarket chip and slightly richer secondary metering rods. The chip will give you more total timing and the rods will allow for more secondary enrichment as the WOT is not computer controlled, only part throttle is in a GM CCC system. You will also want a free flowing exhaust that runs a single 3 in cat. Get the downpipe for a L69 Monte ( VIN G) If running a Chevy, and the after cat for a Grand National no matter which engine you use. The GN systems tend to be better designed and have identical placement to a Monte, but some catalogs do not list them as such ( Summit being one of them). Then have an exhaust shop adapt the 3 in cat between the 2. Just avoid the Dynomax system like the plague as it bottlenecks down to 2.5 in for about a foot, restricting flow. If you order a system for a LG4 150 HP 305, it will come set up for a 2.25 in single cat and hurt performance. For the Olds, I am unsure if they used the Vette's oval inlet and outlet (conveniently a slightly smushed piece of 3 in tubing)catalytic converter like the HO 305 MC and Camaro did, so you would have to check and see. It is not a simple swap, but it is a simple swap. It all bolts together if you have the right pieces, but you need a lot of pieces to make it all happy. A good donor car is nice, as all of the little BS adds up quickly.
The difference between a 231 2bbl and a good V8 will be night and day. Couple it with a mild gear, and you will love it. There are no real drawbacks to a swap done right, with a conservative engine combo other than a little less highway MPG. The added torque will make it more fuel efficient in the city and will require less throttle to get it moving.
If he gets lucky and lands the very desirable and sought after 8.5 rear that would originally be under a 442 then my understanding is the driveshaft that comes with it is an 1" shorter in order to match the rear. I believe it also has stronger U joints.
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