Buick 350 into 83 Cutlass - 307 out

[techg8]

Why would you add EGR if you didn't have to?

LoL

the whole exercise is about using CCC on a Buick 350. The issue ive run into is the backfiring possibly due to lack of EGR. If I continue with the project I add EGR, because I have to.

Ive done plenty of NA non computer Buick 350 before -yawn-. The CCC project is intended to be something different.

I think youre right about the heads. I am curently looking into the EGR configurations produced. Maybe I will find one that will be easy to implement.

Forgetting EGR and the CCC is certainly easier - I just put on a non computer carb for the time being while I look in tothe EGR stuff.

 

[techg8]

From what I can find out, 1973+ Buick 350 heads and intakes had the EGR passages I need. Its rear mounted EGR on the intake, and using the intake requires the heads.

I have even heard that the 73+ heads require 73+ block because of coolant passages, but I havent confirmed that.

I dont want to pull the heads on my 72 so Ive decided to eliminate the CCC. Too bad, it would have been nice to try out. Maybe some other time.

So I pulled the CCC HEI for putting on the shelf and installed the Points system.

I had a slight hiccup because I had forgotten that my plugs were gapped .057 from when I ran a MSD and the nitrous. The HEI had no trouble jumping that gap, but the points system didnt like it. had real weak spark.

I regapped at .040 and changed out the coil, and it runs like a dream.

All thats left to do is install the O2 sensor and AFR meter so I can tune the part throttle cruise mix. EDIT oh yeah and bend a new steel fuel line....

Thanks everyone for your help.

 

[DoubleV]

From what I can find out, 1973+ Buick 350 heads and intakes had the EGR passages I need. Its rear mounted EGR on the intake, and using the intake requires the heads.

I have even heard that the 73+ heads require 73+ block because of coolant passages, but I havent confirmed that.

I dont want to pull the heads on my 72 so Ive decided to eliminate the CCC. Too bad, it would have been nice to try out. Maybe some other time.

So I pulled the CCC HEI for putting on the shelf and installed the Points system.

Oh well. At least you tried. If I knew you were doing this project, I wouldv'e told you about the EGR and then perhaps you could've done something about it before already having everything put together. Ditching the CCC in your case seems the best option though.

All thats left to do is install the O2 sensor and AFR meter so I can tune the part throttle cruise mix. EDIT oh yeah and bend a new steel fuel line....

....and A/C! Don't forget that! Nothing looks worse than a half-removed A/C system on a G-Body!

 

[techg8]

Oh well. At least you tried. If I knew you were doing this project, I wouldv'e told you about the EGR and then perhaps you could've done something about it before already having everything put together. Ditching the CCC in your case seems the best option though.

....and A/C! Don't forget that! Nothing looks worse than a half-removed A/C system on a G-Body!

Its all good, thats what my projects are about, trying something and learning. If I ever need to replace this 350 I can replace it with a complete EGR-era SBB350 and implement the CCC then. This setup does bore me a little though. Maybe I should nitrous it.

As for the AC, well The engine compartment will have to be ugly. No waaaay I am putting all that AC stuff back in. Maybe I will hacksaw the AC tubes and clean up the wiring but thats about all.

 

[Bonnewagon]

" The issue ive run into is the backfiring possibly due to lack of EGR. " Of all the bad EGR valves I've run across, none made the motor backfire. Ping and detonate, yes, because of the advanced timing without the dilution. "the whole exercise is about using CCC on a Buick 350" Have you checked with a timing light how far the computer is advancing the timing? What is your initial timing? Could you use a stock non-performance V-8 chip with less advance? Maybe the CCC distributor is whacky? I'm just wondering why the backfiring when all else seems right on?

 

[techg8]

Yea I would like to look more into it. I hate to walk away from a mystery like that.

I am considering implementing the removed CCC system on my SBB test stand and troubleshooting it there. It needs to be gone through anyhow.

If/when I do I will post any results.

At first I had thought maybe it was the dist as well, but it functions normally off the computer. That leaves the ign module and electronic spark advance. I swapped the module and had no change. So ive come to the conclusion it must be the timing programmed in the chip for part throttle that must be causing the problem

If I could find timing and fuel curves for OEM chips I could have something to look at instead of just taking shots in the dark at what chip would work.

any sources for that info out there?

Or maybe a custom chip could be burned.....hmm

 

[tobyp]

Yea I would like to look more into it. I hate to walk away from a mystery like that.

I am considering implementing the removed CCC system on my SBB test stand and troubleshooting it there. It needs to be gone through anyhow.

If/when I do I will post any results.

At first I had thought maybe it was the dist as well, but it functions normally off the computer. That leaves the ign module and electronic spark advance. I swapped the module and had no change. So ive come to the conclusion it must be the timing programmed in the chip for part throttle that must be causing the problem

If I could find timing and fuel curves for OEM chips I could have something to look at instead of just taking shots in the dark at what chip would work.

any sources for that info out there?

Or maybe a custom chip could be burned.....hmm

You know Ken now that I have met you. This is totally your personality. Anyone that passes a turbo through a Qjet with the plumbing in the trunk has a serious case of the goo with engineering curiosity!!! I saw a ques about the 73 heads with the passage ports with a 73 block, you are correct. Inorder to get 73 heads to cool correctly you do need the extra coolant passages in the block to push the water through. my heads on my 72 are non passaged and could run them on a later block.

 

[techg8]

youre right Toby that is what its all about for me. trying different projects just to try them.

I recently put my 72 Skylark up for sale because I have done everything I ever wanted to with it. Time to move to something else.

The blow thru Qjet project is shelved in the basement awaiting a resurrection. I will be revisiting that in the future for sure. Ive got a thought or two about a drawthru setup I might try as well.

For now the 350 is running great in the Cutlass. I have even kept the charcoal fuel vapor can. I have spent this week picking away at all the little things to finish it up.

Today I pulled the 3.73 posi monte rear out - too much without an OD trans. I put the original rear back in, but replaced the 2.41 gears with 2.73s which should be sporty enough with those little little tires on 14" rims. Should be a lot better on the hiway too.

The Qjet on top of the intake is the same one youve got now.

I do still have a rear sway bar to install but other than that the car is about where I want it. Paint will probably be a project later in the summer.

 

[tobyp]

and......We have successfully converted you!!!!

need to go 2004r, with that 3:73 and you would love it. Have brian build you one from Lonnie @ Extreme Automatics. Throw some Moog 5606 s-10 springs in the front, box your lower control arms and put a 36mm hollow sway bar on the front and it will feel like a totally different car. Actually short of my HR drag bar and poly mounts on the trans it would be my setup... Oh yea, need to put a set of lightning rods in it :wink:

 

[techg8]

you must know I build my own stuff....

3.73 with 200-4r is what I built for the Skylark. Great combo - thats what I used to run my 12.9 @104 with the SBB350 on 100 shot.

I kept the TH350 on the Cutlass because thats what I had already built, and the car was a V6 car with TH350 originally so crossmember etc was an ez thing.

I was in the steering column yesterday looking at the multifunction switch and I tightened up the screws in the tilt column. No more sloppy steering wheel!!!! WOOHOOO it was surprisingly easy with the right tools