Can't figure out loose steering.

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blk7gxn

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Feb 7, 2019
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Wageslave had an excellent point about a fast ratio unit. Looking into getting a fast ratio steering box form let's say a T type or GN, would get you the best "feel" out of any of the gear box units. I will tell you from my own experience, when back in the day I was driving G body cars for daily drivers, and I had purchased a Saab 900s because I couldn't live without it :blam:And there were many occasions I almost wrecked that car pulling out to pass someone because the steering on that Saab was SO TIGHT and sensitive, I would jerk the wheel like it was on my G body and I would be on the shoulder of the road in the other lane!.. it made the G body feel ridiculously loose. Never realized it until I drove something else, and my G body at the time only had 30 something K on it, it wasn't like it was worn out. Good luck with your issue, hope you can find a satisfactory cure at a reasonable price.
 
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Steve Bakken

Apprentice
Feb 20, 2015
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The nice thing is, I have two cars at my disposal for "comparison". My neighbor has a stock '78 Camino, and my son has a stock '78 Cutlass Calais. Both of these drive like a 70's era car should drive. Mine wanders from stripe to stripe and when I turn the wheel, nothing happens until I turn a little more, then it wanders to the other side, and repeat. Long country curves are downright sketchy because it won't hold a line. Like I said earlier, I have fine tuned the jamb nut in and out and this is the best I can get out of it.
 

5spdCab

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Dec 29, 2019
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Tukwila, Wa.
The nice thing is, I have two cars at my disposal for "comparison". My neighbor has a stock '78 Camino, and my son has a stock '78 Cutlass Calais. Both of these drive like a 70's era car should drive. Mine wanders from stripe to stripe and when I turn the wheel, nothing happens until I turn a little more, then it wanders to the other side, and repeat. Long country curves are downright sketchy because it won't hold a line. Like I said earlier, I have fine tuned the jamb nut in and out and this is the best I can get out of it.
Have you checked the center and end links for slop? Are they filled with grease?
IIRC, someone has already asked you about alignment, and tire condition.
 

JAMCAR223

Royal Smart Person
Jun 6, 2014
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Buy a NEW 800 box from a reputable manufacturer, and be done with it. The 800 box is a direct fit to all 78-88 G Body frames, but as stated above, you will need a 800 series pitman arm. I would eliminate the rag joint steering shaft for a u-joint steering shaft, but since you have a new rag joint, it's probably not the cause of your issue. Your 1979 power steering pump & lines are inverted flare, so yes, you will need the adapter fittings installed on your NEW 800 series steering box in order to install your older flare fitting lines. Follow the instructions supplied with the new pump, and purge any air from the system. Since all other steering components are new, and alignment is correct, you should feel acceptable steering response.

* Yes S-10 and Jeep steering boxes bolt on as well, but buy a NEW box.
* Quick ratio boxes are usually advertised as 12.7
* Vehicle examples w/ quick ratio boxes - 1985 Monte Carlo SS / 1986 Olds 442 / 1987 Buick Grand National / 2000 S-10 ZQ8
* If you find a used GM box, and would like to have it rebuilt w/ new parts, look for code YA, WS, HX
* Quick ratio steering boxes will usually achieve full range of motion ( lock to lock ) in approximately 3 rotations ( or less ) of the steering wheel.
 
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Rt Jam

G-Body Guru
Mar 30, 2020
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Not all rag joints are created equal....

Let's be realistic here. Steven has already replaced the rag joint with no improvement and reported it all moves together. Throwing another upgrade at is not the problem. He also claimed 2 other g bodies drive normal. His is going stripe to stripe. This kind of slop can't be hard to find.


Steve. What are the alignment specs? If you stand outside the driver's window and saw the wheel left and right. Does the tire move right away? These cars will not feel like a new Corvette but stripe to stripe. Even with a worn front end, they are not that bad. Push the rear of the car sideways, how much does it move? Not counting the tire sidewall?
 
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Steve Bakken

Apprentice
Feb 20, 2015
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Let's be realistic here. Steven has already replaced the rag joint with no improvement and reported it all moves together. Throwing another upgrade at is not the problem. He also claimed 2 other g bodies drive normal. His is going stripe to stripe. This kind of slop can't be hard to find.


Steve. What are the alignment specs? If you stand outside the driver's window and saw the wheel left and right. Does the tire move right away? These cars will not feel like a new Corvette but stripe to stripe. Even with a worn front end, they are not that bad. Push the rear of the car sideways, how much does it move? Not counting the tire sidewall?
Can't tell you the alignment specs. I work at a major repair shop and was with our mechanic while he checked everything out. Everything met o.e. specs when he was done. We have narrowed it down to the gear assy. It's just a matter of figuring out what will fit and with what adaptors
 

pagrunt

Geezer
Sep 14, 2014
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Elderton, Pa
Here's something I haven't seen brought up, how tight are the box bolts or is the frame weak/thin at the mounting points? Same as for the idler arm with this same question.
 
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69hurstolds

Geezer
Supporting Member
Jan 2, 2006
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Here's something I haven't seen brought up, how tight are the box bolts or is the frame weak/thin at the mounting points? Same as for the idler arm with this same question.
80 lbs-ft. torque. All 3 bolts. The 2 bolts for the idler arm are torqued to 60 lbs-ft.

The bolts have anti-collapse bracing in the frame so essentially it's like the sway bar mounting. The "problem" lies in the fact it acts like a sewer tube for the bolts, so any moisture that gets in there gets trapped and just rusts the bolts away. When I pulled the 84 apart, I yanked the box and pulled out 2 of the bolts no problem. The bottom bolt came out and was about 1/3 the size of the rest of the bolt due to corrosion. Looked funny and was so necked down it looked almost like pencil lead. Amazingly it still came out like normal. Ran a bottle brush through it to clean out the hole. EDIT: Just to add, I put a film of wheel bearing grease on the new bolts where they go through the frame rail as a peace-of-mind thing. Maybe they'll last another 20 years. Oh, wait, that was almost 20 years ago I did that! D'oh!

Don't forget those "special" stop-sign washers on the bolts. There's a reason they're shaped the way they are.
s-l400.jpg


Steering gear mounting bolts and washers:
GM p/n
Bolts-
9430763, 7/16-14 x 5.75" for the long bolt, need 1. (Was over 4x the price of the shorter bolts when I got them from the dealership, so watch out). Discontinued. Be wary of using hardware store bolts here. This is a crucial component.
15590234, 7/16-14 x 4.625" for the short bolts, need 2. Still available from GM. $3.94 list price, each.

Stop-sign Washers-
14074908
Usually all 3 bolts have them. Still available from GM. $2.39 list price, each. Normally sold in a bag of 10.


Also, a note about the YA, HX and WS steering boxes. The YA is the direct bolt-in version you can use from other G-bodies. The HX (higher effort) and WS (lower effort) steering boxes are from F-bodies, and have a bit different of a turning radius than the YA box. Something about one using 16" wheels vs 15". I don't recall. They'll bolt in too, but they use a different length pitman arm so you'll need to get one for a G-body 800 box. The effort is affected by the pump pressure and torsion bar diameters, so there's that, and honestly, it doesn't seem to be much of a difference from anecdotal evidence. So not changing anything else but the box isn't going to automatically make one box react much different than another.

The internal stops are also different on the F-body boxes to net you a slightly shorter turning radius than the G-body's original turning radius. LH turns can be "fixed" by swapping the cover from a G-body box to the F-body box, but RH turns can only be adjusted by different thickness snap rings inside the box. As-is won't affect turning radius a ton, but still there. General driving around town you may not even notice it that much unless you do a lot U-turns. They ALL have 12.7:1 ratio, so they're all considered quick ratio boxes. That doesn't change. Don't listen to anyone claiming the HX is the box to have because it is supposed to have the quickest ratio. That's just some BS.
 
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Steve Bakken

Apprentice
Feb 20, 2015
83
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Had it out 2 years ago and to my recollection everything was in pretty good shape. No corrosion in the front end of the car, bolts looked good
 
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