Have Electric Cars finally killed muscle cars???

[doood]

It is all smoke and mirrors.

First of all cars aren't trucks or SUVs. They are making fewer cars and selling more of everything else. Fine. Kill off ICE cars that only the poors can afford and maintain. The not-poors will roll coal and electricity as it suits them.

Me? My garage is full of V8s and the tools, skills, and knowledge on how to keep them going. It is still cheaper than buying an EV and entering into their pay-to-play service model. And there is still a multi-billion dollar industry supporting them.

In short, it's only dead if you let it die. Be inactive, complacent, and compliant. Or get involved and hold your elected representatives to account. Demand to see concrete plans built on reason.

Computers killed muscle cars before EVs. First is all the nanny tech like DBW and traction controls. But the worst are the paywalls and proprietary software. Already you don't own the software, firmware, and tune that makes modern cars run. In modern cars you can't change anything without proprietary dealership service software to recalibrate thd PCM to accept it. Can't even change batteries in modern cars without needing to reset the PCM. Now there are over the air updates and upgrades to purchase for modern cars. Soon all sorts of upcharge options will be locked behind electronic paywalls. OEMs can also remotely change cars and even brick them, that is besides ths mandated government backdoors in the PCMs. Afterall that, thd differences in the physical powerplant doesn't matter much.

One of the reasons for the big EV push is control. Its easier to implement automation and remote controlling with EVs than with ICE. Lots of opportunities for BS like taxing for miles driven, mileage credits, etc.

Do you think a LS1 ECU can be deactivated remotely through a backdoor other than EMP (i.e. destruction)? Honest question. I haven't heard such a thing used for law enforcement yet, but it wouldn't be a stretch IMO. Maybe the 1998 tech is a sweet spot before such mandated backdoors....

 

[Mikej89]

Fellow '90s child here. Heck, if we're talking about not keeping up or spanking the new stuff, "New Muscle" killed old muscle. Probably before we even graduated. Once the technology was there, stuff just kept getting faster and faster. I remember when the GT500 was hot sh*t. But the biggest thing that I hear and experience is that it all got too expensive. Once the "Pro-Touring" scene got into full swing, nothing that I could ever feasibly build would hold a candle to what's popular. Once upon a time, headers and glass packs were enough to be cool. With maybe a distant dream of a power adder. Now, if it's not LS swapped with 10 inch billet wheels and full custom suspension, it's just an old car. (Maybe it's a personal problem) What certainly didn't help the dream was watching those Pro-Touring cars get their asses kicked on "Are You Faster Than A Redneck." All of that fury and all of that money, just to get embarrassed anyway. My heroes were dead, and I had a 1980s personal luxury car with a thrush glasspack to show for it. But I never gave up on it, and the real draw to the car had shone through. It's got looks and personality. And as it turns out, that's all that I need. (...100 more hp and a stick shift wouldn't hurt though.)

The '05 GT500 was a game changer for sure with 500hp. I remember cruising around back in '03-04 and the fastest new cars were the Cobra Mustangs. They ran low 13's-high 12's stock. Back then any old G-body or Nova with a hot 327-406 could keep up with one or dust it if you hook. Back then even the 305 HO cars weren't considered world beaters by any means but they still could beat at least 75% of cars on the road with 0-60 in 8 sec range.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Do you think a LS1 ECU can be deactivated remotely through a backdoor other than EMP (i.e. destruction)? Honest question. I haven't heard such a thing used for law enforcement yet, but it wouldn't be a stretch IMO. Maybe the 1998 tech is a sweet spot before such mandated backdoors....

Its hard to say as Onstar even back then could brick a car equipped with it. Through old gen Onstar is no longer supported. Late 90's is early OBD2 era which is considered very old dino tech now. Stuff back then wasn't as connected like things currently are. A lot of modern cars have built in wireless modems for all the app crap which allows for backdoors. Either way I would avoid 90's GM cars that were Onstar equipped.

 

[ck80]

Its hard to say as Onstar even back then could brick a car equipped with it. Through old gen Onstar is no longer supported. Late 90's is early OBD2 era which is considered very old dino tech now. Stuff back then wasn't as connected like things currently are. A lot of modern cars have built in wireless modems for all the app crap which allows for backdoors. Either way I would avoid 90's GM cars that were Onstar equipped.

Then again, you can just completely disconnect the onstar system...

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

The '05 GT500 was a game changer for sure with 500hp. I remember cruising around back in '03-04 and the fastest new cars were the Cobra Mustangs. They ran low 13's-high 12's stock. Back then any old G-body or Nova with a hot 327-406 could keep up with one or dust it if you hook. Back then even the 305 HO cars weren't considered world beaters by any means but they still could beat at least 75% of cars on the road with 0-60 in 8 sec range.

A stock MCSS could outrun a fully outfitted 2000's CVPI, through a

Then again, you can just completely disconnect the onstar system...

In old stuff yeah like 90's and 2000's yeah, newer stuff where everything is much more networked and integrated together and internet connected its not so easy.

Another issue will be with future barn finds. Data in flash memory eventually evaporates away if its not powered up over long periods. USB drives are designed to rewrite their data every time they are plugged in to prevent data loss. So a late 90's thru now car parked in a barn for a few decades will just be paperweight even if all the hardware is fully operational because all the software and firmware in the modules will be gone. You couldn't even bootstrap the PCM to reflash a replacement tune in it. Same goes for PCMs sitting on a shelf for a long time. Good luck getting replacement programing from the OEMs by then. Better have good tickle chargers hooked up to avoid blanking your future barn cars. It may be a good thing our ancient 80's classics use PROM instead.

Here's a little more bad news about the future of cars.
https://www.musclecarsandtrucks.com/biden-infrastructure-bill-vehicle-kill-switch-2026/

 

[ck80]

Another issue will be with future barn finds. Data in flash memory eventually evaporates away if its not powered up over long periods.

Has anyone actually checked how long that takes to happen? And do different management system setups change things? Just curious since you see and hear about ultra low mileage cars of that era - the 4th gen ss/TA, the s97 cobras, cars with 20 or 100 miles that weren't used and just sat untouched... but people bought and started driving. No mention of the software having gone kaput.

So, as a curiosity, the question becomes, how long does it really take for it to disappear?

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Has anyone actually checked how long that takes to happen? And do different management system setups change things? Just curious since you see and hear about ultra low mileage cars of that era - the 4th gen ss/TA, the s97 cobras, cars with 20 or 100 miles that weren't used and just sat untouched... but people bought and started driving. No mention of the software having gone kaput.

So, as a curiosity, the question becomes, how long does it really take for it to disappear?

It probably varies, its a process that takes awhile after the battery has drained. I am no expert with electronics but from what I understand is that electrons eventually tunnel out of the floating gates which causes data loss. Heat and humidity speed this process up. Supposedly a USB drive kept in a cool and dry place will retain data for a decade before the data develops too many faults to be readable.

 

[ck80]

It probably varies, its a process that takes awhile after the battery has drained. I am no expert with electronics but from what I understand is that electrons eventually tunnel out of the floating gates which causes data loss. Heat and humidity speed this process up. Supposedly a USB drive kept in a cool and dry place will retain data for a decade before the data develops too many faults to be readable.

So what you're saying is I'm not purely an old codger and tinfoil hat enthusiast when I'm anti-newfangled technology and prefer nothing newer than cds for music storage or 35mm negatives for pictures because all that electronic crap can't be relied upon without constant maintenance.

Cool.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

So what you're saying is I'm not purely an old codger and tinfoil hat enthusiast when I'm anti-newfangled technology and prefer nothing newer than cds for music storage or 35mm negatives for pictures because all that electronic crap can't be relied upon without constant maintenance.

Cool.

Or several copies and backups.

 

[69hurstolds]

You can totally get rid of Onstar modules on up through 2013 Camaros for sure. People have done it. They're right behind the glovebox for somewhat easy access. Not sure of anything newer if you can disable the hardware or not.

I happen to have a copy of the stock tune on a USB for our 2010 Camaro. Have the Diablo tuner for it so I could turn off the stupid stuff and run 8 cylinders all the time. It's been there almost 9 years. That means I can park it in a barn now?

I just let Onstar lapse on my 2013 Camaro. They sent me letters, emails, etc., wanting me to make sure I re-upped before it cancelled. Now they sent me an email saying they cannot get in contact with my Camaro via Onstar to disable the equipment. That's because it spends most of its time in the garage where the signal cannot get to it. So they sent me an email to ask me to move the car where it can get a signal, then push the blue Onstar button on the mirror to contact them so they can disable the equipment. Ok. But only when I feel like moving it. Until then, STFU.