Starting back at ONE

Oldscarnut

Master Mechanic
May 10, 2017
251
245
43
NW Washington State
Some of you may be familiar with my project and process, but the short version is I put a blueprinted Olds 350 in a 1980 El Camino, replacing the Buick 3.8 V6. I had all the machine work done at a shop and paid a nifty nickel. Parts and labor added up. I put it in and it would not start. It backfired a few times and bent the pushrods on 2 cylinders. You might be thinking 180 degrees out, as I did, so I replaced the pushrods and moved the rotor 180 degrees. Nope it was no that. Bent a couple more pushrods. Checked the MSD for spark and got none. Had a cheap copy distributor which went into the original position, had spark, but still would not fire. So Gas, Spark and Air but not one cylinder firing.

The Q jet was bought at a swap meet, supposedly gone through and really shiny and nice. The fuel pump was working fine, pressure at the carb inlet, but the bowl never gave a squirt. Carb off and sent to the Carb Connection in WA for overhaul. They noted it was made from 2 different Qjets, not compatible in any way except look. Even the base gaskets were different, so another Carb purchase later, I have the one supposedly that should work on a 68 Olds 350.

It still cranks and cranks with no firing. For the first time, the cranking is not lopey or labored, it really sounds like it is trying to fire even, like speeding up on a cylinder or two while the open exhaust sounds like compression. But nope. Checked the distributor, no fire. Checked # 1-cylinder compression ZERO. I checked the rockers and #1 pushrods bent, both this time. The other 14 straight as they should be….rolling on the bench without a wobble.

Okay it now comes down to valves and cylinders in the wrong position, so the cam and crank must not be synched right. Yesterday I removed all but the harmonic balancer. I will have to find an adult to hold the flywheel so I can get enough purchase to get the big nut off and expose the timing chain. If it is actually wrong, I cannot explain it, but all lights point to it as my problem from the start, I just never questioned it being assembled correctly. I bought an OEM Distributor and will junk both MSD and cheap copy. Even if the timing is far off, it does not explain no spark again. Before I put the OEM distributor in I will have it checked for function. Wholesale changes from 1968 to 1980 and 1980 to ‘68 is much more of a headache than expected. I have heard that an errant spark can fry the module and I suspect it was something there, but one guy chasing wires, sparks and functions is really fun, like Keystone Cops fun! I have used and relied on this forum to track this malfunction from the beginning, and I think I may be on the right track now……Holy smokes the hours and money wasted because the cam was not installed right???? Free labor from my friend the Chev mechanic is still my fault. Assuming …. well we know about *ss-U-ME! I have gotten into better shape doing the crawl out, get up, find the Damn tool, squat, crawl back under exercises 20+ times a day! He’s a gem for you…at 71 don’t work alone and well stop restoring cars! I will try to get a pic of the dots on the cam and crank gear alignment, especially if wrong!
 

Oldscarnut

Master Mechanic
May 10, 2017
251
245
43
NW Washington State
Some of you may be familiar with my project and process, but the short version is I put a blueprinted Olds 350 in a 1980 El Camino, replacing the Buick 3.8 V6. I had all the machine work done at a shop and paid a nifty nickel. Parts and labor added up. I put it in and it would not start. It backfired a few times and bent the pushrods on 2 cylinders. You might be thinking 180 degrees out, as I did, so I replaced the pushrods and moved the rotor 180 degrees. Nope it was no that. Bent a couple more pushrods. Checked the MSD for spark and got none. Had a cheap copy distributor which went into the original position, had spark, but still would not fire. So Gas, Spark and Air but not one cylinder firing.

The Q jet was bought at a swap meet, supposedly gone through and really shiny and nice. The fuel pump was working fine, pressure at the carb inlet, but the bowl never gave a squirt. Carb off and sent to the Carb Connection in WA for overhaul. They noted it was made from 2 different Qjets, not compatible in any way except look. Even the base gaskets were different, so another Carb purchase later, I have the one supposedly that should work on a 68 Olds 350.

It still cranks and cranks with no firing. For the first time, the cranking is not lopey or labored, it really sounds like it is trying to fire even, like speeding up on a cylinder or two while the open exhaust sounds like compression. But nope. Checked the distributor, no fire. Checked # 1-cylinder compression ZERO. I checked the rockers and #1 pushrods bent, both this time. The other 14 straight as they should be….rolling on the bench without a wobble.

Okay it now comes down to valves and cylinders in the wrong position, so the cam and crank must not be synched right. Yesterday I removed all but the harmonic balancer. I will have to find an adult to hold the flywheel so I can get enough purchase to get the big nut off and expose the timing chain. If it is actually wrong, I cannot explain it, but all lights point to it as my problem from the start, I just never questioned it being assembled correctly. I bought an OEM Distributor and will junk both MSD and cheap copy. Even if the timing is far off, it does not explain no spark again. Before I put the OEM distributor in I will have it checked for function. Wholesale changes from 1968 to 1980 and 1980 to ‘68 is much more of a headache than expected. I have heard that an errant spark can fry the module and I suspect it was something there, but one guy chasing wires, sparks and functions is really fun, like Keystone Cops fun! I have used and relied on this forum to track this malfunction from the beginning, and I think I may be on the right track now……Holy smokes the hours and money wasted because the cam was not installed right???? Free labor from my friend the Chev mechanic is still my fault. Assuming …. well we know about *ss-U-ME! I have gotten into better shape doing the crawl out, get up, find the Damn tool, squat, crawl back under exercises 20+ times a day! He’s a gem for you…at 71 don’t work alone and well stop restoring cars! I will try to get a pic of the dots on the cam and crank gear alignment, especially if wrong!
The worst is confirmed as fact, the cam dot was at the 4 o'clock position while the crank dot was at 12. In the process I made sure #1 is TDC which also makes #6 at the top of the intake stroke. I have a few more things to remove to get the chain off and it is my hope that with all rockers removed, I can rotate it the roughly 1/4 turn CW to line them up correctly and put it back together. I still have to see where the rotor is pointed (@ @1) and find out why there is no spark. aND FINALLY IT SHOULD START! Of course now the brake pedal is soft after new MC, lines, brakes , hoses ,wheel cylinders and proportioning valve. You gotta love it, no drips or wetness anywhere and the pedal sinks even though I have bled all several times, even with all four open for gravity. It needs to stop, right?
 
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Texas82GP

Just-a-worm
Apr 3, 2015
7,989
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Spring, Texas
The worst is confirmed as fact, the cam dot was at the 4 o'clock position while the cam dot was at 12. In the process I made sure #1 is TDC which also makes #6 at the top of the intake stroke. I have a few more things to remove to get the chain off and it is my hope that with all rockers removed, I can rotate it the roughly 1/4 turn CW to line them up correctly and put it back together. I still have to see where the rotor is pointed (@ @1) and find out why there is no spark. aND FINALLY IT SHOULD START! Of course now the brake pedal is soft after new MC, lines, brakes , hoses ,wheel cylinders and proportioning valve. You gotta love it, no drips or wetness anywhere and the pedal sinks even though I have bled all several times, even with all four open for gravity. It needs to stop, right?
Consider checking the cam timing events with a degree wheel while you are in there. Clutch had a bad time with an improperly manufactured timing set or cam for a small block Olds.
 
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Oldscarnut

Master Mechanic
May 10, 2017
251
245
43
NW Washington State
Not much to add, but maybe try some swearing or a few deep breathes Chuck. I am sure you will get it sorted out though!
Thanks Craig. I actually made some headway. I cleaned up timing cover chunk of steel, and the water pump; de rusted as much as I could reach. Got the dots right, timing chain and fuel pump back on, gaskets arrived but my blue RTV seems to have left the building so a quick stop to get some tomorrow and it should be back together soon after, Hearing it fire would be a huge relief and incentive to get after the rest done and go for a test drive. My wife is home tomorrow so bleeding the brakes is on the schedule too. The timing thing certainly turned the corner I was hoping to before COVID and lost drive (no pun. The rest is just a 40 year old vehicle not being driven enough.
 
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