The kids are all right

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It's not that this change is happening. It's the logic that's driving it. Remember in the 70s when emissions ruined performance? Look at us now. I've long wondered what would bring down this age of muscle cars. Now I know. Adapt or die, I get it. But every step of the way it gets more expensive to do so, and that's not cool. On the other hand it must, also not cool.

Did "emissions" really "ruin performance" though? 1970(?) the insurance companies started cracking down on muscle cars, which resulted in mfr's under-reporting HP/Torque numbers in crazy ways so their cars wouldn't be flagged "dangerous" or whatever, insurance caught on and '71 and '72 models were neutered. Then there was the whole oil embargo thing that drove the price of gas through the roof and made people consider how much gas (and $$$) they were actually using. Hello fuel-efficient tiny cars from Japan. (omg they terk er jerbs) And yeah, smog controls came about because smog was actually a thing. Cripes even I remember 20y ago seeing Tulsa covered in a brown blanket of the stuff and dealing with "ozone alerts" and crap all summer long. Now? not so much in either case. And now we have 800HP+ vehicles that pass emissions driving off the lot. Expensive AF but looks like performance still exists.

I expect there to be some back and forth on this plan, I mean 2035 is still 14 years away. That's quite a long time. I mean, 1993 to 2007 was 14 years. 2007 to NOW was 14 years. *shudder*. Doesn't seem all that long when you live it, but it is.

...

Just for fun I went back and looked at the first post in the thread. Where the kids thought a stick shifter and the "antique car" was quaint and cool. That's now. That's not in 14 years. In 50 years they'll be looking at us (well not us bc we'll probably all be pushing up daisies) and our stinky oil-burning death trap antique Hellcat Chargers and 2SS Camaros as "cool and quaint." Then get back in their Mr. Fusion hover cars and head back to the launchpad for another stint on Mars.

[Edited bc I can’t do math first thing Saturday morning. Yeah it’s only 14y but that’s still a while. ]
 
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I expect there to be some back and forth on this plan, I mean 2035 is still 24 years away. *shudder*.
Damn. We’re already off to a head start down the hill to carmageddon.
 
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I expect there to be some back and forth on this plan, I mean 2035 is still 24 years away.
News flash..


2035 is NOT 24 years away. It's 2021. That's 14 calendar years.

You talk about living it... it's more like 2007 to now. Not all that long ago.

Try like 13 model years away as 2022 models are about to hit the lot. And for corporate engineering and planning which looks at 5-6 yr blocks you're about 2 life cycles on design and maybe 1.5 on power trains away.

Now, as for the idea of this BS idea forcing it through, nobody has addressed the power generation needs except to ban clean coal and ban gas fired plants. New power stations cost HUGE amounts and take WAY more than 10 years to permit, design, build, and integrate in the grid.

Kind of a problem, just like others mention transmission line fires etc.

Meanwhile, for all the "pollution" moves like this are designed to save, nobody mentions the elephant in the room: all the international agreements and treaties driving this change allow countries like China and India to INCREASE their net emissions, along with any other 'developing' or 'third world nation.

It's like vacuuming and dusting a house you've been told to evacuate because it'll flood tomorrow.
 
Air pollution in LA stayed remarkably high during the early days of the CV lockdown. despite much fewer cars on the road. Trucks, trains and container ships were apparently to blame. FedEx, UPS, and those 2-million mile postal trucks that deliver everybody’s toilet paper and PS5s.
 
Did "emissions" really "ruin performance" though? 1970(?) the insurance companies started cracking down on muscle cars, which resulted in mfr's under-reporting HP/Torque numbers in crazy ways so their cars wouldn't be flagged "dangerous" or whatever, insurance caught on and '71 and '72 models were neutered. Then there was the whole oil embargo thing that drove the price of gas through the roof and made people consider how much gas (and $$$) they were actually using. Hello fuel-efficient tiny cars from Japan. (omg they terk er jerbs) And yeah, smog controls came about because smog was actually a thing. Cripes even I remember 20y ago seeing Tulsa covered in a brown blanket of the stuff and dealing with "ozone alerts" and crap all summer long. Now? not so much in either case. And now we have 800HP+ vehicles that pass emissions driving off the lot. Expensive AF but looks like performance still exists.

I expect there to be some back and forth on this plan, I mean 2035 is still 24 years away. That's quite a long time. I mean, 1972 to 1996 was 24 years. 1997 to NOW was 24 years. *shudder*. Doesn't seem all that long when you live it, but it is.

...

Just for fun I went back and looked at the first post in the thread. Where the kids thought a stick shifter and the "antique car" was quaint and cool. That's now. That's not in 24 years. In 50 years they'll be looking at us (well not us bc we'll probably all be pushing up daisies) and our stinky oil-burning death trap antique Hellcat Chargers and 2SS Camaros as "cool and quaint." Then get back in their Mr. Fusion hover cars and head back to the launchpad for another stint on Mars.

You're really just reinforcing what I said. The technology wasn't there when emissions first hit, so performance had to suffer to meet requirements. Time Marches on, technology Marches on, and we have the best of both worlds. I see the same thing happening here as the bigger EVs take longer to become suitable replacements for what we have now. There will be azzpain with this transition no matter how you look at it. It's the forced obselescence (?) that drives me nuts and the fact that it's flat out going to be a lot more expensive. My old dinosaurs will be rendered obselete and I'll be forced to buy something newer, that I don't want, or walk. I doubt in the future you'll be able to buy an old pickup truck for $5,000 and run it for 10,15+ years the way I have. Then of course there's the politics I'm intentionally leaving out.
 
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Air pollution in LA stayed remarkably high during the early days of the CV lockdown. despite much fewer cars on the road. Trucks, trains and container ships were apparently to blame. FedEx, UPS, and those 2-million mile postal trucks that deliver everybody’s toilet paper and PS5s.

This is what I hear very little chatter about. Let's get all the cars off the road and not talk about the real polluters. Transportation accounts for 28% of CO2 emissions.


That means every airplane in the sky, every mile long train on the rails, every container ship in the ocean, every 18 wheeler on the road (yes I know there are WV semis now, bear with me), they're all contributing. Let's say they all have an equal share and round up: with that logic all the cars we drive to work account for 6% of all CO2 emissions (30/5). Eliminating every gas burning passenger car wouldn't even be a drop in the bucket. If EVs are the future for some other reason, so be it. From an emissions perspective I just don't see it.
 
.It's the forced obselescence (?) that drives me nuts and the fact that it's flat out going to be a lot more expensive. My old dinosaurs will be rendered obselete and I'll be forced to buy something newer, that I don't want, or walk. I doubt in the future you'll be able to buy an old pickup truck for $5,000 and run it for 10,15+ years the way I have.

Before I do that I'll convert it to run on coal or wood or some other such version WWII style.

This guy has the right idea:

Perfect for city commuting given how slow rush hour traffic moves.
 
Air pollution in LA stayed remarkably high during the early days of the CV lockdown.
Perhaps, but later after the cars were gone for a while I remember seeing on the news that they reported you could see the mountains from downtown LA. That blew everyone away because before that some didn't even know there were mountains there. Flash back to 1970 when I flew into LA and I distinctly remember us descending into a huge brown cloud that covered the entire area kind of like in Independence Day.
 

I’m not going to render an opinion on the car itself. The story of how the Mustang got inflated, and surprising timing of the oil crunch was the interesting part of the article.

Park any Gbody next to a current Mustang, Camaro or Challenger. I think all three weigh closer to 4K lbs.
 
Yeah I was sitting here doing something else and a little voice in my head said “2035 is only 14 away dumbass”. Post edited.
 
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