Old school engines vs ls swap debate!!

[autonaut]

ok and you have a nice day and if you have time seems like there are forums about rear main seals leaking on an LS!

http://ls1tech.com/forums/lt1-lt4-modifications/967049-rear-main-seal-leak-symptoms.html

Of course there is. The engine is not perfect. It's just better in every way but costs.

 

[autonaut]

And a good day to you too Pontiacgp.

If anyone wonders in currently driving a 350 75' l48 2 bolt mains with a lunati cam and lifters, edelbrock heads and intake, roller rockers and longtube headders HEI and a wideband tuned quad.. Heads intake carb and dizzy i bought used and restored. Extremely cheap. Incredibly easy. Pulls 18-20hg vacuum and goes like stink while idling smooth and returning decent mpg.

Please dont misjudge me or mistake me for arrogant. I love the old smallblocks more than my LS engines. But that doesnt change the fact they're better in every measure but costs.

 

[autonaut]

Greetings MotorHeadMike & all; Thank you for posting that excellent video on the Ls family. And another tid bit for OP (Boy 1), many of my closest friends would say that I'm very good at squeezing torque & HP from very few bucks. My education was auto engines & I worked in my dream shop during the early 70's. And again in a dirt shop in the mid 80's & in the john was the bosses library! So I'm reading one of the many auto books, the author is explaining bore to stroke ratio (5.7" rods) & valve shrouding. The testing had found that a 337 inch SBC would make the most power per cube of any engine (push rod) at the time. You ask how is this possible, well the 4.062 bore un-shrouds the intake valve & the 3.25" stroke seems to be the optimum for the 5.7" rods. But it costs more in todays dollars to build a 331"-337" than a 355" (.03" over) or 361" (.06" over) & of course it will make less torque than 350"er. My boss at the first engine shop would constantly remind me that an engine is just an air pump, like the guy in the video. So the heads are the key to any build. Once you decide on heads (team captain- quarterback-leader) then you can plan the rest of the team, compression, cam timing & what not. Dollar for dollar a 355"er with heads, cam & compression matched well with each other is the budget leader. In closing I should mention that my good buddy did build a 331 inch SB last fall with 10 to 1 compression, brodix street heads (180 cc runners?) & a modern hyd roller cam (good for about 5800 RPM). We fired it last fall on the test stand & installed it. So sometime this summer the rest of the car will be done & we'll be able to drive it, to say we're anxious would be an understatement. Good Luck, Bob Jr.

Always a pleasure to read your responses Vanrah.. One day i'll buy your 9c1😉

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

2 piece rear seals always seep a little, that is why SBCS were upgraded to 1 piece. My 305 has 100K and it doesn't leak. Seen plenty of oily and grimy LS engines. Also seen plenty of gen 1s hit 300k and more, V8s in general last a long time because they strain less. About the only thing that wears out in gen 1s are the crappy factory timing chains that start stretching out before the motor is broken in. Long stroke engines last longer than short storkes if you don't Rev them to the moon. Less concatenated cylinder wear and less crank twisting. That is why my 1946 C113, motor with its long stroke still has 180 psi on all 4 cylinders despite 70 years of hard work and abuse.

Also as I pointed out before, LS engines have a few shortcomings compared to some other engines. Poorer oil control, greater internal leakage so the oil pump has to work harder, crank driven oil pump runs twice as fast increasing cavitation, inferior oil galley setup, deep skirt block increases windage to the point where a stock LS requires a windage tray for just normal driving, main bulkheads block crankcase venting, aluminum blocks have very limited rebore. The LS7 uses a dry sump oil system to solve the series oil control issues. Then there are the gen 5 LT1 that are already starting to make the gen 3 and 4 outdated if you are that concerned about being current. Really people so concerned about staying current or being caught up wouldn't bother with 30 plus year old cars, then would play with newer, more modern, and better platforms than the old G. Also why install a more modern engine with a fuel system that is more dated than the stock fuel system if one is so concerned to be current?

 

[lilbowtie]

Been following this and I really don't see what there is to debate about - the LS is by far a superior engine - it's like trying to compare a newer computer to an old commodore 64. What it comes down to is what you want to put under your hood. Most of us like the older classic cars and the iron that came with it yet others like the old cars w/ late model drive train.

 

[Qdub24]

I'd only put an LS in a daily driver; they're not really much better on fuel economy either. I'll take any 400+ci engine w/aftermarket efi over an LS engine anyday. Cost-wise and torque-wise, the LS engines don't cut it for me.
My DD, 2012 2SS

 

[CWPottenger]

How many miles will your gen 1 sbc 383 take before oil start dripping on your garage floor?

I dont know about you guys.. But i have never seen a 2 piece rear main seal sbc turning 100.000 miles without engine oil leakage somewhere.

I feel some people refuse to let times catch up. Look at how the world looked like in 1955.. And how it looked in 1997.. Dont you think humanity somehow improved on the existing design of the smallblock in the years between?

It's stroked? Already there you sacrificed durability. That engine wont turn 200.000 miles without meeding a rebuilt. It's doubtful it will turn 100.000 miles without issues if your that high in hp.

Also, having a great deal north of 350hp you also have sacrificed streetability. Your engine will never idle 750rpm in neutral with a coin standing upright on the intake.

Most likely your fuel economy is also bad. And you require premium fuel.

Whare am i wrong? And how?

You seem to be stuck with the concept that those with SBC are running with 1960' and 1970's parts and technology...
I personally like LS engines and SBC. What I dislike is those that simply bash SBC because they are enthralled with over hype on an LS.
I'm a die hard gearhead and love cars. I prefer "muscle" in whatever form it comes. Flathead, SBC, BBC LS, Turbos, Supercharged, hell even rice if done clean.

Now to my combo. It is a 1 piece main rear seal, full roller, aluminum heads and intake. Only part in my engine that is OEM SBC is the block and it has been completely machined and worked. Anyone serious about building an engine for HP/TQ does not use factory parts no matter if SBC or LS.
I would bet it will turn over 100,000miles, but since it is not a DD anymore the likely hood it will get that many miles is limited, since it now gets less the 3000 miles a year. So ask me in 35 years if it made it.
As for streetability it is rock solid, I can make it idle @ 750 easy. Never tried to stand a coin on my intake since it has no value in performance,durability,or efficiency.
As for economy I get 25mpg/hwy about 18mpg/city about 9WOT and it will run on anything from 87octane to race fuel.
How? I have full digital ignition and EFI so I can custom tune at anytime to what I want.

To the OP it comes down to $$$ plain and simple. Set out your goals for HP/TQ then make a list of parts that will be needed to achieve it. That parts list needs to include everything, parts and services (machine shop, tuning, etc)

 

[montec]

I get 19mpg hwy at 80mph on interstate(yes that the limit +5) and I get about 8 in town. Low in town is cause I just like launching at the lights and stop signs. No fun when you can't play a little.

 

[Bonnewagon]

After conversing with my son-in-law I realized I am a bit cavalier saying he should go old school. There just isn't a pool of old iron to work with anymore. Just because I have six Pontiac 400's stashed in my garage doesn't take into account that even a beat up old V-8 is going for big bucks if you can even find one. So I have to back up and say use what you have available and be happy. Of course if you do have access to old iron then it behooves you to learn about it!

 

[vanrah]

Greetings Autonaut & all;

Always a pleasure to read your responses Vanrah.. One day i'll buy your 9c1😉

Thank you for the kind words. My wife wonders if anyone reads my "books" as she call my posts. So I'm not putting everyone to sleep? I just enjoy making new friends & of course talking about automobiles. Touching on the Bronze Brick, you should take it on a test drive! And thanks to Boy 1 (OP) for starting this thread as it may never die out as this debate will go on well into the future. Bob Jr.