BUILD THREAD Project Olds Cool (Recognition!!)
- Thread starter Rktpwrd
- Start date
What brand panel adhesive are you using? 3M, Lord Fusor, SEM? Lord Fusor 108B/109B (large tube/small tube) would be my choice, 110B/111B if you want it to set faster. www.lord.com
Thanks for all the support and comments guys! There's some great questions in here too, so let's see if I can address them...
Thanks very much Mike.
I'm glad to hear you're at least finding the posts informative if nothing else.
I always try to present the info in as clear and concise manner as possible, and still try to make them somewhat entertaining at the same time. It's not always possible, but I try.
Compiling the info into these posts is a different form of work in its own way, but comments like yours make it all worthwhile for me.
Thank you!
Thanks Dave.
No, no tricks, smoke or mirrors here. Rather just happy circumstance than good planning. It still happens to me here, but probably just not as quick as other places.
The elevation where I live is about 3500 ft above sea level, and our humidity in the ambient air is usually fairly low. This higher altitude and low humidity conditions help immensely in flash rust not forming over short periods of time. Some guys such as yourself that live close to the Great Lakes, or the coast likely can't go any longer than a couple of hours without having problems with exposed bare steel.
I also try and keep the big door closed as much as I can to try and keep the temperature regulated inside. I don't know if it helps or not, but it's just what I do.
Good question!
Thanks Jared! Glad you agree. It just seems to be the best way to go about it.
Thanks man. You're officially my personal PR man, like it or not!
Hahaha
Yes, panel bond is definitely legit, it would probably shock the hell outta you the number of applications it's used in, and how commonly.
The gaps on the topside are minimal. Roughly 1/16" all around. Once the panel bond has set and cured, the excess will be ground flush, and will probably have already filled the gaps for me.
In the areas that it doesn't, they will be filled with an initial skim coat of All Metal, Metal to Metal, or equivalent product. After that, conventional body filler and putty will finish things off.
Another great question.
But of course I was going to cover that when I got there...
😉
Thanks for the compliment! Appreciate it sir.
Thanks man.
As long as you prepped the surfaces to be bonded properly before you applied the adhesive, and kept it clamped long enough for it to fully cure, you should have no problems. If done properly, it's easily as strong as a welded seam.
Thanks Opie.
I gotta throw you guys a curve ball every once in a while, just to keep ya on your toes!
Lol
There is still the possibility of warping it, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I'll explain a bit later in tonight's update.
Appreciate the feedback!
Thanks very much Kevin.
Yes, I'm pushing pretty hard on this one. I'm trying to minimize the amount of downtime while it's undergoing the critical repairs. If I can at least get it structurally sound again, I can epoxy prime it, and do a "rolling restoration" on the rest, to borrow Jared's term. At least that way I'll be able to salvage some of this season.
So far, so good...
Thanks Justin, glad to hear you're enjoying following the progress. See the next response to get the answer to your question...
Jared gets the gold star for guessing the answer to this one. Clecos are definitely the ticket here, and are purposely made for applications like this!
See tonight's update for more info on them...
I'll be using 3M's adhesive, for a couple of reasons.
First, I'm familiar with their system. Second, I already have some product left over from last winters header panel project. I also already have the dispensing gun for it.
The product I'll be using is 3M 8115. It claims a 90 minute work time, which will be beneficial for me. The patch is quite large, and I can only get it in from underneath by angling it in under supports and such, and then manipulating it into position. The longer work time will allow me some time to do this.
It reaches full cure in 24 hours, and that's fine with me too.
Thanks for all the questions and comments everyone. Much appreciated!
D.
Thanks very much Mike.
I'm glad to hear you're at least finding the posts informative if nothing else.
I always try to present the info in as clear and concise manner as possible, and still try to make them somewhat entertaining at the same time. It's not always possible, but I try.
Compiling the info into these posts is a different form of work in its own way, but comments like yours make it all worthwhile for me.
Thank you!
Thanks Dave.
No, no tricks, smoke or mirrors here. Rather just happy circumstance than good planning. It still happens to me here, but probably just not as quick as other places.
The elevation where I live is about 3500 ft above sea level, and our humidity in the ambient air is usually fairly low. This higher altitude and low humidity conditions help immensely in flash rust not forming over short periods of time. Some guys such as yourself that live close to the Great Lakes, or the coast likely can't go any longer than a couple of hours without having problems with exposed bare steel.
I also try and keep the big door closed as much as I can to try and keep the temperature regulated inside. I don't know if it helps or not, but it's just what I do.
Good question!
Thanks Jared! Glad you agree. It just seems to be the best way to go about it.
Thanks man. You're officially my personal PR man, like it or not!
Hahaha
Yes, panel bond is definitely legit, it would probably shock the hell outta you the number of applications it's used in, and how commonly.
The gaps on the topside are minimal. Roughly 1/16" all around. Once the panel bond has set and cured, the excess will be ground flush, and will probably have already filled the gaps for me.
In the areas that it doesn't, they will be filled with an initial skim coat of All Metal, Metal to Metal, or equivalent product. After that, conventional body filler and putty will finish things off.
Another great question.
But of course I was going to cover that when I got there...
😉
Thanks for the compliment! Appreciate it sir.
Thanks man.
As long as you prepped the surfaces to be bonded properly before you applied the adhesive, and kept it clamped long enough for it to fully cure, you should have no problems. If done properly, it's easily as strong as a welded seam.
Thanks Opie.
I gotta throw you guys a curve ball every once in a while, just to keep ya on your toes!
Lol
There is still the possibility of warping it, but I'll cross that bridge when I get to it. I'll explain a bit later in tonight's update.
Appreciate the feedback!
Thanks very much Kevin.
Yes, I'm pushing pretty hard on this one. I'm trying to minimize the amount of downtime while it's undergoing the critical repairs. If I can at least get it structurally sound again, I can epoxy prime it, and do a "rolling restoration" on the rest, to borrow Jared's term. At least that way I'll be able to salvage some of this season.
So far, so good...
Thanks Justin, glad to hear you're enjoying following the progress. See the next response to get the answer to your question...
Jared gets the gold star for guessing the answer to this one. Clecos are definitely the ticket here, and are purposely made for applications like this!
See tonight's update for more info on them...
I'll be using 3M's adhesive, for a couple of reasons.
First, I'm familiar with their system. Second, I already have some product left over from last winters header panel project. I also already have the dispensing gun for it.
The product I'll be using is 3M 8115. It claims a 90 minute work time, which will be beneficial for me. The patch is quite large, and I can only get it in from underneath by angling it in under supports and such, and then manipulating it into position. The longer work time will allow me some time to do this.
It reaches full cure in 24 hours, and that's fine with me too.
Thanks for all the questions and comments everyone. Much appreciated!
D.
Okie Dokie. Tonight's update.
I started off by fine tuning the opening in the roof a bit more. It was close, but my initial cut lines were a bit shy, and the raised area of the patch interfered with them a bit.
So I removed the patch panel, and laid out some masking tape lines where I needed to grind back the edges a bit more.
I use masking tape for this rather than just following a Sharpie line for a couple of reasons:
First, it makes it really easy to see where the material needs to be removed. Much easier than trying to follow a line that's just drawn on.
Secondly, it works great as a temperature indicator. If the tape starts to discolour, smoke, or burn, I know that I'm putting too much heat into the panel edge in that area.
With the edges straightened out and fine tuned with my 2" grinding disc, I deburred all the edges again and test fit the panel again.
Perfect fit now.
I left the patch panel in place, and removed the "cut line" masking tape pieces and laid out some fresh ones all around the perimeter. On these pieces, I laid out marks 1/4" in from the edge of the opening, and 4" apart starting from the middle going outwards:
The 1/4" puts me exactly in the center of my 1/2" flange. I offset the marks on the backside of the roof panel from the ones on the frontside. This will help to evenly distribute the clamping forces across the entire panel.
Starting in the center, I carefully drilled a hole through the roof skin and the patch panel. Then installed a Cleco. Clecos are specialty clamps designed for sheetmetal that when placed through the hole, pull the two pieces together and keep them tight.
Working from the center out, and alternating side to side, I worked my way to the outer edges, drilling holes, and inserting Clecos.
When viewed from the underside, they look like this:
However, the ones on the front side of the patch needed a bit of extra attention. The roof skin sits nearly tight against the roof support, and there wasn't enough room for the bottom of the Clecos to pull the two pieces together without interfering with the roof support.
To solve this little issue, I simply drilled all the way through both the roof skin and patch panel, as well as the roof support. To ensure the Clecos didn't pull on the underside of the roof support rather than the patch panel, I enlarged the hole in only the support, from the underside.
It's not a great picture, but you get the idea:
I continued working my way across to the outer edges...
...and finally complete with all the Clecos in place:
Continued >>>
I started off by fine tuning the opening in the roof a bit more. It was close, but my initial cut lines were a bit shy, and the raised area of the patch interfered with them a bit.
So I removed the patch panel, and laid out some masking tape lines where I needed to grind back the edges a bit more.
I use masking tape for this rather than just following a Sharpie line for a couple of reasons:
First, it makes it really easy to see where the material needs to be removed. Much easier than trying to follow a line that's just drawn on.
Secondly, it works great as a temperature indicator. If the tape starts to discolour, smoke, or burn, I know that I'm putting too much heat into the panel edge in that area.
With the edges straightened out and fine tuned with my 2" grinding disc, I deburred all the edges again and test fit the panel again.
Perfect fit now.
I left the patch panel in place, and removed the "cut line" masking tape pieces and laid out some fresh ones all around the perimeter. On these pieces, I laid out marks 1/4" in from the edge of the opening, and 4" apart starting from the middle going outwards:
The 1/4" puts me exactly in the center of my 1/2" flange. I offset the marks on the backside of the roof panel from the ones on the frontside. This will help to evenly distribute the clamping forces across the entire panel.
Starting in the center, I carefully drilled a hole through the roof skin and the patch panel. Then installed a Cleco. Clecos are specialty clamps designed for sheetmetal that when placed through the hole, pull the two pieces together and keep them tight.
Working from the center out, and alternating side to side, I worked my way to the outer edges, drilling holes, and inserting Clecos.
When viewed from the underside, they look like this:
However, the ones on the front side of the patch needed a bit of extra attention. The roof skin sits nearly tight against the roof support, and there wasn't enough room for the bottom of the Clecos to pull the two pieces together without interfering with the roof support.
To solve this little issue, I simply drilled all the way through both the roof skin and patch panel, as well as the roof support. To ensure the Clecos didn't pull on the underside of the roof support rather than the patch panel, I enlarged the hole in only the support, from the underside.
It's not a great picture, but you get the idea:
I continued working my way across to the outer edges...
...and finally complete with all the Clecos in place:
Continued >>>
All the holes were drilled, and the Clecos installed, but in doing so, swarf from the drilling got in between the patch and the roof skin. In addition, where the drill bit punches through on the underside, there's almost always a burr. Compound that with multiple panels, and pretty soon the pieces don't fit tightly together anymore.
So the Clecos were removed, along with the patch panel. All the holes in both the roof skin and the patch panel were once again deburred, on both sides.
While the patch was out for this process, I prepped the flanges for the panel bond at the same time.
Here's the patch on the bench with the flanges done:
3M recommends preparing the surfaces with a Clean N Strip wheel, or equivalent 50 grit disc, so I chose the latter.
Here's the topside of the roof skin with the deburring done:
The underside of the roof skin needed to be similarly prepped, the Clean N Strip wheel makes this a fairly easy task. Apologies for the so-so pic, it's really hard to get good pics of the underside due to the lighting.
With nearly all the parts prepped, I test fit the patch one more time to check the fitment now that all the burrs were gone.
That simple little step of deburring the parts paid off BIG TIME. As you can see in these next couple pics, the parts sit very tightly together, with no gaps to speak of whatsoever.
I purposely took this photo of a straightedge free standing across the patch, without my hands on it so you can see how well they fit together with no pressure on it from me.
Closeup of the same:
I'm extremely pleased with the fitment, and the results. If all continues to go well, this repair will require very little filler.
🙂
Of course, that all could still go sideways on me once I start to weld up the holes after the adhesive has cured! But we'll see...
One last look at tonight's progress...
Hopefully tomorrow night I can finish the last little bit of prep required (epoxy the roof support, and whatever else I can reach in through the hole), and get the panel bonded in final.
Thanks for tuning in to tonight's work everyone! Probably be another one again tomorrow night.
Cheers
Donovan
So the Clecos were removed, along with the patch panel. All the holes in both the roof skin and the patch panel were once again deburred, on both sides.
While the patch was out for this process, I prepped the flanges for the panel bond at the same time.
Here's the patch on the bench with the flanges done:
3M recommends preparing the surfaces with a Clean N Strip wheel, or equivalent 50 grit disc, so I chose the latter.
Here's the topside of the roof skin with the deburring done:
The underside of the roof skin needed to be similarly prepped, the Clean N Strip wheel makes this a fairly easy task. Apologies for the so-so pic, it's really hard to get good pics of the underside due to the lighting.
With nearly all the parts prepped, I test fit the patch one more time to check the fitment now that all the burrs were gone.
That simple little step of deburring the parts paid off BIG TIME. As you can see in these next couple pics, the parts sit very tightly together, with no gaps to speak of whatsoever.
I purposely took this photo of a straightedge free standing across the patch, without my hands on it so you can see how well they fit together with no pressure on it from me.
Closeup of the same:
I'm extremely pleased with the fitment, and the results. If all continues to go well, this repair will require very little filler.
🙂
Of course, that all could still go sideways on me once I start to weld up the holes after the adhesive has cured! But we'll see...
One last look at tonight's progress...
Hopefully tomorrow night I can finish the last little bit of prep required (epoxy the roof support, and whatever else I can reach in through the hole), and get the panel bonded in final.
Thanks for tuning in to tonight's work everyone! Probably be another one again tomorrow night.
Cheers
Donovan
Donovan,
Thanks for taking the time to share your project with us. You work all day, then work on the car until late, then stay up late posting the progress when you could just go in and go to bed. That's dedication. The repair looks terrific. I predict little or no warpage when you weld up the holes since the flange provides a lot of strength and provides additional heat tolerance. A quick question for you: when you were drilling for the Clecos, what was holding the patch in place? Awesome work. Thanks for the awesome write up.
Thanks for taking the time to share your project with us. You work all day, then work on the car until late, then stay up late posting the progress when you could just go in and go to bed. That's dedication. The repair looks terrific. I predict little or no warpage when you weld up the holes since the flange provides a lot of strength and provides additional heat tolerance. A quick question for you: when you were drilling for the Clecos, what was holding the patch in place? Awesome work. Thanks for the awesome write up.
Opie Knievel
Rum Fueled Midnight Mechanic and Moderator
The repair looks like it's going as planned. I like those Clecos. Very cool way to hold the sheetmetal pieces together. I'll have to check into getting some of them. You should have this wrapped up pretty soon. So, you've still got to bond the patch to the car, weld up the holes where the Clecos were, clean up the welds, put filler on the repair spot and then clean it up for primer? That doesn't sound too bad.
I love watching your threads. I learn things all the time. Thanks again for taking the time and effort to do such good write-ups and for answering questions.
I love watching your threads. I learn things all the time. Thanks again for taking the time and effort to do such good write-ups and for answering questions.
Curious as to what is the plan for the cleco holes once the panel bond is dry ?
I have seen this stuff used for making a ton of pylon signs. Also used it to replace the rear seat braces / speaker shelf in my car and the lower door skin on my buddys elco as well as some patch panels on a few beaters.
On everything but the elco we used sheet metal screws or pop rivits until the bonding agent had cured. At the sign shop we tried using clecos but getting panel bond on them made them a PIA to get back out and ruined some of them so he now uses a pneumatic pop-rivet gun or tek screws. With the sheet metal / tek screws we would just back the screw out, scotchbrite pad on a drill to clean up the hole and put another dab of panel bond in there. The Elco got a skim coat of fibreglass to seal the holes up. At the sign shop we tried welding the holes up a couple times and sometimes it worked great but on thinner stuff ( like aluminum ) it made a mess.
The patch panel turned out so straight. Any time I would try and run something thru the dies it looks like a drunken sailor for all the wobbles in it 😉
Carry on, it looks great !!!
I have seen this stuff used for making a ton of pylon signs. Also used it to replace the rear seat braces / speaker shelf in my car and the lower door skin on my buddys elco as well as some patch panels on a few beaters.
On everything but the elco we used sheet metal screws or pop rivits until the bonding agent had cured. At the sign shop we tried using clecos but getting panel bond on them made them a PIA to get back out and ruined some of them so he now uses a pneumatic pop-rivet gun or tek screws. With the sheet metal / tek screws we would just back the screw out, scotchbrite pad on a drill to clean up the hole and put another dab of panel bond in there. The Elco got a skim coat of fibreglass to seal the holes up. At the sign shop we tried welding the holes up a couple times and sometimes it worked great but on thinner stuff ( like aluminum ) it made a mess.
The patch panel turned out so straight. Any time I would try and run something thru the dies it looks like a drunken sailor for all the wobbles in it 😉
Carry on, it looks great !!!
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The work is awesome and I think we all have to appreciate how you compose your posts. Question, are you going to do anything with the roof brace as far as treating it or anything?
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