Turbo 3800 T56 Grand Prix

[Northernregal]

Sure! So the crank has an 18x wheel on it from the factory on the outside of the balancer, and a ~3x "sync" signal on the inside.
The cam shaft has a single magnet on it.

There's guys who have run these things on Holley EFI (which is what I'm currently planning on doing) and they're using the 3x "sync" crank trigger. The Sync signal is actually not evenly spaced though so it's not really a 3x signal. I'm planning on running a universal crank trigger wheel when I go to Holley's EFI instead because it doesn't allow a 18x signal.
I'll try to dig up some literature on it but I believe they are a hall effect signal.

Edit: Yup, both cam and crank are both hall effect sensors

I checked into it. Actually super easy to get it on holley. If you want a base map I can send it to you, I made up a quickie.

If someone made some aluminum heads I would be IN for a 3800. Unfortunately its not really worth it for a 50lb weight advantage over a steel block LS.

 

[bs009]

I was actually working on a base map the other night for it, Really was just doing it to explore what the Holley has. Would definitely be interested in seeing what you came up with.

I'm not sure how guys are getting away with running the 3x signal though unless the leading edge happens to be evenly spaced.

I did see this thread about getting it going though so I know they're doing it, but I'm curious if there's anything funky going on with their ignition timing because of that 3x signal

HP EFI On 3800 V6 Engine - Holley Performance Products Forums

HP EFI Tuning & Tech

forums.holley.com

 

[bs009]

Looks like the rising edge is actually even spaced so I guess it really is pretty simple

Found a surprisingly informative video about those crank signals and the chart he has there basically verifies that the rising edge is evenly spaced:

 

[Northernregal]

Looks like the rising edge is actually even spaced so I guess it really is pretty simple

Found a surprisingly informative video about those crank signals and the chart he has there basically verifies that the rising edge is evenly spaced:

I was actually working on a base map the other night for it, Really was just doing it to explore what the Holley has. Would definitely be interested in seeing what you came up with.

I'm not sure how guys are getting away with running the 3x signal though unless the leading edge happens to be evenly spaced.

I did see this thread about getting it going though so I know they're doing it, but I'm curious if there's anything funky going on with their ignition timing because of that 3x signal

HP EFI On 3800 V6 Engine - Holley Performance Products Forums

HP EFI Tuning & Tech

forums.holley.com

I think this is the same thread I found. Are you Terminator x or HP/Dominator based? I can send it to you, but it's just the ignition settings and some basic fuel/ignition.

I think with the Holley this would be a killer swap, it's just not enough aftermarket support without sourcing unobtainable Holden aluminum heads. With the aftermarket heads this would be a no brainer.

 

[bs009]

I haven't bought anything yet for the Holley system, but I'm looking at the HP/Dominator setup, kinda leaning towards Dominator right now because the cost doesn't appear to be a huge difference to upgrade.
From what I saw online it didn't look like the terminator could run a 6 cylinder, but someone on power tour told me it should work no problem. Haven't found anything on Holley's website to confirm that yet though.

ZZP used to make aluminum heads for these things, but the cost was insane for them and the flow rates weren't what a lot of people expected as they came delivered, but they could have been improved with porting/polishing.
I'm not as afraid of having parts shipped from Oz as I used to be since the exchange rate is so good right now, but I'm probably going to just stick with a set of ported stock heads, a big cam, and just cram a lot of boost pressure into it. Might be worth looking at what they have down there though. Aluminum heads would be a good upgrade for sure.

 

[Northernregal]

I haven't bought anything yet for the Holley system, but I'm looking at the HP/Dominator setup, kinda leaning towards Dominator right now because the cost doesn't appear to be a huge difference to upgrade.
From what I saw online it didn't look like the terminator could run a 6 cylinder, but someone on power tour told me it should work no problem. Haven't found anything on Holley's website to confirm that yet though.

ZZP used to make aluminum heads for these things, but the cost was insane for them and the flow rates weren't what a lot of people expected as they came delivered, but they could have been improved with porting/polishing.
I'm not as afraid of having parts shipped from Oz as I used to be since the exchange rate is so good right now, but I'm probably going to just stick with a set of ported stock heads, a big cam, and just cram a lot of boost pressure into it. Might be worth looking at what they have down there though. Aluminum heads would be a good upgrade for sure.

Looks like the Term X software has the same ability for ignition strategy that you need to run the 3800. It is a little more limited on some options but the basics are there. It has options for 4, 6 and 8 cylinder.

But if your gonna spend the money, Dominator all the way. Although the HP will run a second set of 2 injectos off the ecu for meth or E85 in batch fire into the intake... Or run 2 meth PMW channels for maximum boostiness.

 

[nomoar]

This is really awesome! I love how you were able to fit the A/C compressor down in the bottom location too, that's something I wish I would have done.

Yeah at first I was really intent on keeping the A/C. Unfortunately the belt routing I created doesn't work too well. There is a pretty bad chirp/squeak which I am pretty sure is coming from the relatively low contact patch on the alternator. For now I've switched to your version of routing without the a/c compressor.

In the future I'd like to create a high mount system for the compressor. On some other 3800 projects I've seen, guys are tapping and adding fittings to the pump and lower intake manifold in order to bypass the weird tensioner/coolant block thing - I figure ditching that thing would make it relatively easy to build some aluminum brackets for the alternator, compressor and a tensioner like the "FieroRog" conversion kit (

).

 

[bs009]

Yeah that's pretty much what I had to do, didn't realize there was any sort of kit out there though. That kit would be a pretty good way of getting the alternator out of sight. I've been considering doing things differently because I'd like to make more room for another turbo on the passenger side and I think my A/C bracket is going to get in the way.

I blocked off my upper coolant elbow port, but it was pretty difficult getting enough heat into this pocket area

Then just tapped the front to relocate the heater core port

Welded and tapped the timing cover, this was pretty straight forward. I just used a weld-in fitting

 

[nomoar]

I blocked off my upper coolant elbow port, but it was pretty difficult getting enough heat into this pocket area

Pretty cool! That spot on the lower intake is pretty awkward. What is the second elbow just above the new heater core port?

Have you thought about modifying coolant pump inlet? I always wondered how that cleared your driver side turbo manifold. I've been toying with the idea of switching to an electric power steering pump (volvo s40 seems to be a common swap) and then routing the turbo manifold through the open space that would create.

didn't realize there was any sort of kit out there though

I'm definitely pessimistic about that FieroRog kit working for our cars due to the lack of space down low with the k-member, but it does give me hope for building a simple bracket system.

 

[bs009]

That elbow is the new heater core port actually. I have it going around the driver side of the engine into a pipe by the valve cover before it wraps itself back into the heater core. Not very elegant but it seemed like the best way to do it.
I haven't really considered modifying the inlet for the coolant but it's probably not too hard to do. I just didn't really need to because I built my exhaust manifolds to clear it. It's a bit tight but there's a pretty good enough amount of an air gap there still. The manifolds go down pretty low at the front and leave little room between them and the power steering pump line.
I'll try and grab some pictures of it soon, I'm planning on changing a few small things from the turbo to the downpipe now that the car is back from Power Tour

Electric power steering would be amazing, or even better would be an electric box/rack to cut out all of the hydraulic lines