Drove to Lowes for some stuff, watched 3 guys walk past it and all took a picture. Nice day out here. 🙂
What Did You Do To Your G-Body Today? [2021]
- Thread starter CopperNick
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So, because I hadn't beat myself up sufficiently enough while stripping the first part of the S-10 frame, I decided to add insult to injury by taking a run at the old door skin on driver's door of my Monte.
This door has been dismounted and strapped to a wheeler for so long I can't remember how long. Being mobile, though, let me roll it outside to take advantage of today's lull in the wet and woolly that we have been getting this weekend.
The front edge of the skin where it had been folded over to trap the inner skin/shell broke away fairly easily. As suggested by Ribbed Roof, I went mechanical but elected to fly a 120 gr in my 4.5 to make the material removal as least invasive as possible. Lots of very gentle passes made until just the shadow of the seam started to show and then stop. I also chose to lay the wheel in at an angle that took more from the outer skin and left the inner as unmolested as possible.. Seemed to result in what I was looking for.
On the way from A to B, I found that GM had out done itself in how it had attached the leading edge of the skin to the shell. Not only did they use tack welds but there were actually either 3, or possibly 4, ( one gone mia due to rust in the lower corner) of them!!! Looked to be the kind that get made by one of those two fingered long reach fusion welders. Also found that the edge of the inner shell fell short of actually fitting tightly into the fold-over of the skin at the edge; about a 1/4 inch of just outer skin with the barest amount of it actually trapping the inner skin/shell. That I will have to measure and transfer to the new skin because it may have a bearing on how the new skin is to be placed and located when the time comes.
The lower seam was entirely another matter. This door had come with the car and when I subsequently surveyed it was found to suffered a major delamination of the outer skin and the inner skin along the bottom seam. Succinctly total rust out. At the time what I had had to do was fabricate two sections of angles from body metal and set them in place to replicate the lost sill almost from end to end. Back then my engine of choice was my Lincoln 180 but it had been set up for Flux core due to most of my work being done outside in the environment (No garage or even the thought of one back then) and, even at its lowest settings, 18/19 body metal was marginal for thickness that could tolerate the heat and the metals being joined had to be eat off it clean, which most of that door was anything but.
I did get as far as getting it all closed up but the bottom seam ended up having to have a series of multiple light tacks and short shots run along its edge to build it all up to get back to a close match to the cabin sill. About that time I had decided to go ahead and strip the outer skin to bare metal so i could start prepping it for any filler or hammer and dollly work needed and get it into primer. That was when I discovered all the damage to the lower "sponson" or whatever it is actually called, and that discovery put an end to rehabbing that door as it was.
Today, in order to peel that skin, I had to revisit all that weld I had laid to build up that edge. I did not want to just grind it all away as I knew that if I were to do that, in all likelihood I would end up having to put some of it back so what ended up having to happen was that I carefully ground away the skin itself and avoided touching the "seam", then used a wide bladed scraper and a body hammer to "persuade" the two panels to part company. Grind a little, tap on the side edge of the blade a little, lather, rinse, repeat.
All this leaves me with just the back edge to split along with about 3-4 inches of the remaining lower seam where it meets up with the back bottom corner. That too is a rotten area so will require metal to be shaped and set in place.
And more frame stripping is still on the agenda.
Nick
This door has been dismounted and strapped to a wheeler for so long I can't remember how long. Being mobile, though, let me roll it outside to take advantage of today's lull in the wet and woolly that we have been getting this weekend.
The front edge of the skin where it had been folded over to trap the inner skin/shell broke away fairly easily. As suggested by Ribbed Roof, I went mechanical but elected to fly a 120 gr in my 4.5 to make the material removal as least invasive as possible. Lots of very gentle passes made until just the shadow of the seam started to show and then stop. I also chose to lay the wheel in at an angle that took more from the outer skin and left the inner as unmolested as possible.. Seemed to result in what I was looking for.
On the way from A to B, I found that GM had out done itself in how it had attached the leading edge of the skin to the shell. Not only did they use tack welds but there were actually either 3, or possibly 4, ( one gone mia due to rust in the lower corner) of them!!! Looked to be the kind that get made by one of those two fingered long reach fusion welders. Also found that the edge of the inner shell fell short of actually fitting tightly into the fold-over of the skin at the edge; about a 1/4 inch of just outer skin with the barest amount of it actually trapping the inner skin/shell. That I will have to measure and transfer to the new skin because it may have a bearing on how the new skin is to be placed and located when the time comes.
The lower seam was entirely another matter. This door had come with the car and when I subsequently surveyed it was found to suffered a major delamination of the outer skin and the inner skin along the bottom seam. Succinctly total rust out. At the time what I had had to do was fabricate two sections of angles from body metal and set them in place to replicate the lost sill almost from end to end. Back then my engine of choice was my Lincoln 180 but it had been set up for Flux core due to most of my work being done outside in the environment (No garage or even the thought of one back then) and, even at its lowest settings, 18/19 body metal was marginal for thickness that could tolerate the heat and the metals being joined had to be eat off it clean, which most of that door was anything but.
I did get as far as getting it all closed up but the bottom seam ended up having to have a series of multiple light tacks and short shots run along its edge to build it all up to get back to a close match to the cabin sill. About that time I had decided to go ahead and strip the outer skin to bare metal so i could start prepping it for any filler or hammer and dollly work needed and get it into primer. That was when I discovered all the damage to the lower "sponson" or whatever it is actually called, and that discovery put an end to rehabbing that door as it was.
Today, in order to peel that skin, I had to revisit all that weld I had laid to build up that edge. I did not want to just grind it all away as I knew that if I were to do that, in all likelihood I would end up having to put some of it back so what ended up having to happen was that I carefully ground away the skin itself and avoided touching the "seam", then used a wide bladed scraper and a body hammer to "persuade" the two panels to part company. Grind a little, tap on the side edge of the blade a little, lather, rinse, repeat.
All this leaves me with just the back edge to split along with about 3-4 inches of the remaining lower seam where it meets up with the back bottom corner. That too is a rotten area so will require metal to be shaped and set in place.
And more frame stripping is still on the agenda.
Nick
To freely borrow from an infamous Monty Python sketch, "It is an ex door skin; it has ceased to be."
Threw another hour or two at that door and managed to successfully detach the outer door skin from the inner shell. Along the way I did discover a few things. That big old internal brace against side crashes is actually attached to the inner shell, not the outer skin. It is a section of steel channel into which has been installed a section of flat plate to make it a box. Over half the weight of that door is composed of that structure. I also discovered that my previous attempts at fixing the damaged sections of the outer skin, although rude, crude and misconstrued, had actually hung together to the point where I had to turn to my trusty Dremel tool to deal with some of it.
Remember that all the seams that I had had to reconstruct back then were done using Flux Core wire feed; my old reliable Lincoln 180. A 220 Volt machine, it did come with the internal capability of being converted to gas with only minor adjustments needed for that to occur. However, then and now, it has remained flux core simply because, during the final years that I had the 78 Monte, and the first few years that I had the 85, all the metal work done on them was done outside in the elements with, at most, a sun canopy in place for shade. Gas is great, but absolutely useless in an outside environment where the wind can and will blow the lens away before it can do any good.
All this history aside, what has to happen now is that many of the repairs that I performed on the inner skin prior to recreating the bottom seam will now have to be dismantled and redone. This isn't so much about adding or removing metal as it is about upgrading the quality of the joints and seams to make them better able and capable of accepting and correctly fitting for the new outer skin. The lower sill where the bottom door gasket attaches is going to be left as is; just a visit here and there to add some additional tacks or material where I did not have access for that purpose in the past.
As for the old skin, it could honestly be repaired and be shelved to act as a JIC item. it would be a lot of work and a winter project but mostly easy-peasy with the new Miller. Only thing here is whether or not I want to go through the exercise but having it available could be valuable should another door coming wandering into my shop and need repairs (Haven't seen an old one around here yet that didn't.) I'll have to find a nook or niche into which to stash it while I think about it.
Don't ask about the SS-10 frame rail cleaning; it is a slow and filthy job that will be done when it is done.
Nick
Threw another hour or two at that door and managed to successfully detach the outer door skin from the inner shell. Along the way I did discover a few things. That big old internal brace against side crashes is actually attached to the inner shell, not the outer skin. It is a section of steel channel into which has been installed a section of flat plate to make it a box. Over half the weight of that door is composed of that structure. I also discovered that my previous attempts at fixing the damaged sections of the outer skin, although rude, crude and misconstrued, had actually hung together to the point where I had to turn to my trusty Dremel tool to deal with some of it.
Remember that all the seams that I had had to reconstruct back then were done using Flux Core wire feed; my old reliable Lincoln 180. A 220 Volt machine, it did come with the internal capability of being converted to gas with only minor adjustments needed for that to occur. However, then and now, it has remained flux core simply because, during the final years that I had the 78 Monte, and the first few years that I had the 85, all the metal work done on them was done outside in the elements with, at most, a sun canopy in place for shade. Gas is great, but absolutely useless in an outside environment where the wind can and will blow the lens away before it can do any good.
All this history aside, what has to happen now is that many of the repairs that I performed on the inner skin prior to recreating the bottom seam will now have to be dismantled and redone. This isn't so much about adding or removing metal as it is about upgrading the quality of the joints and seams to make them better able and capable of accepting and correctly fitting for the new outer skin. The lower sill where the bottom door gasket attaches is going to be left as is; just a visit here and there to add some additional tacks or material where I did not have access for that purpose in the past.
As for the old skin, it could honestly be repaired and be shelved to act as a JIC item. it would be a lot of work and a winter project but mostly easy-peasy with the new Miller. Only thing here is whether or not I want to go through the exercise but having it available could be valuable should another door coming wandering into my shop and need repairs (Haven't seen an old one around here yet that didn't.) I'll have to find a nook or niche into which to stash it while I think about it.
Don't ask about the SS-10 frame rail cleaning; it is a slow and filthy job that will be done when it is done.
Nick
Yo, Ribbed Roof, got a minute or five? Just a couple of Q &A's that have come up here and I figured that, from your previous post on the art of door skins, that you might have some insight for me on them.
First of all, I did manage to split the edges with a minimum amount of damage to either half of the door. Clean up work on the inner shell is ongoing at this point.
Howeverd, when I peeled back the 1/4 or so inch of material that had been folded over by the factory when it assembled the outer skin to the inner shell, I found that the inner shell had not been placed/situated/locate symmetrically from side to side.
At the forward edge adjacent to the front fender, removing the flap of metal fold exposed about a 1/4 inch of outer skin metal extending past the edge of the inner shell before the point where the fold started to occur.
At the trailing or door jamb edge, I found the same situation only the exposed metal metal was narrower, about an 1/8 of an inch.
These amounts of exposure appeared to be consistent from top to bottom, meaning to me that the skin had been set correctly from the window sill to the lower fold but that leads me to my major question here,
Should the skin be centered from side to side? That is, should the overhang that the outer skin appears to exhibit when it was laid against the original inner shell/skin be equal or identical from side to side?
What I would anticipate if I were to do this when attaching the new skin is tha the gap between door skin and the door jam at the front quarter panel would shrink by about 1/16 of an inch, +/-. That is not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things but could result in having to shift the door hinges forward slightly. Again, no big deal apart from the fact that before I removed them i drilled through them and into the A pillar at the hinge pockets using a 1/8 bit to establish bench marks or location holes for the hinges that I can use during the initial re-assembly to get them back to their default locations from when they used to be there.
So I guess what I am wondering here is if I should stay with the allowances that the factory used when they mated the door halves together or if I should tweak them to get the outer skin more precisely located from side to side?
Have to stress at this point that this is not going to be a show car but getting the gaps and clearances for the doors set correctly sure does make life easier when you are ingressing or egressing the vehicle (Thank you Mr. Barnum)
Thoughts or comments?
Nick
First of all, I did manage to split the edges with a minimum amount of damage to either half of the door. Clean up work on the inner shell is ongoing at this point.
Howeverd, when I peeled back the 1/4 or so inch of material that had been folded over by the factory when it assembled the outer skin to the inner shell, I found that the inner shell had not been placed/situated/locate symmetrically from side to side.
At the forward edge adjacent to the front fender, removing the flap of metal fold exposed about a 1/4 inch of outer skin metal extending past the edge of the inner shell before the point where the fold started to occur.
At the trailing or door jamb edge, I found the same situation only the exposed metal metal was narrower, about an 1/8 of an inch.
These amounts of exposure appeared to be consistent from top to bottom, meaning to me that the skin had been set correctly from the window sill to the lower fold but that leads me to my major question here,
Should the skin be centered from side to side? That is, should the overhang that the outer skin appears to exhibit when it was laid against the original inner shell/skin be equal or identical from side to side?
What I would anticipate if I were to do this when attaching the new skin is tha the gap between door skin and the door jam at the front quarter panel would shrink by about 1/16 of an inch, +/-. That is not a whole lot in the grand scheme of things but could result in having to shift the door hinges forward slightly. Again, no big deal apart from the fact that before I removed them i drilled through them and into the A pillar at the hinge pockets using a 1/8 bit to establish bench marks or location holes for the hinges that I can use during the initial re-assembly to get them back to their default locations from when they used to be there.
So I guess what I am wondering here is if I should stay with the allowances that the factory used when they mated the door halves together or if I should tweak them to get the outer skin more precisely located from side to side?
Have to stress at this point that this is not going to be a show car but getting the gaps and clearances for the doors set correctly sure does make life easier when you are ingressing or egressing the vehicle (Thank you Mr. Barnum)
Thoughts or comments?
Nick
Engine and trans came out, unpleasant surprise with trans
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