What happened to young people and driving culture?

[ck80]

Lets not forget how cars have changed from then to now. If you went shopping for a project car in say 1990, you might find a car that had 80,000 miles on it and had a bad engine or transmission. The body might have the start of rust, but generally would be in good condition. You could pick this car up for $200 to $1500.

If you go shopping for a car now, you might find a car with 175,000 to 250,000 miles on it that has a major drivetrain failure and pretty major rust set in by then if you live in salt country. People want $800 to $4000 for them because "I KNOW WHAT I GOT", and even if you do get one, who wants to change out a FWD transmission or a transverse engine in their driveway.

There just isn't a huge surplus of used, but not used up, cars out there anymore. Trucks are a little different since the aftermarket is better for them, but the cost of entry is high compared to what it used to be.

Combine that with everybody being broke, and computers being cheap and ubiquitous.

The grass is always greener arguement. You neglect the following: 30 years ago, the reason why so many cars were parked with 80 or 100k miles IS BECAUSE they WERE used up and falling apart.

1) Parts cost more as a percentage of hourly minimum wages than they do now. Tools? Same thing. There wasn't Internet ordering, wholesale, or rockauto. You need a tool, harbor freight wasn't pushing Chinese knockoffs. You paid top dollar at sears or ace hardware. Even lowes and home depot tools weren't a thing, you probably didn't have one near you. Walmart wasn't even a household name yet!

Parts lifespans and tolerances were short, loose, and sloppy in some areas. Build quality was lower. The service life of components was lower.

Don't you remember even in the 80s the mindset was, it's turning 100k miles, time to trade it in? Cars were expected to last 100k or a little more. Now, end of service life is expected closer to 300k....

The only era that had somewhat plentiful reasonably reliable underpriced vehicles was during the oil crisis and years after when gas guzzlers, (or for a few years later formerly parked out of service guzzlers now no longer needed,) were unloaded as undesirable at git it out of my way prices.

But think about the prices quoted. Even in the late 1990s, minimum wage was barely over $5/hr. Today, most areas its $10 to start a job. You might pay $3000 for an entry level vehicle... but that's the same as 1500 in 1998.

That was short lived. The auto industry has kicked out millions of cars since that ended 10 years ago. Plenty to fill the population.

Apples to oranges. As cars keep getting newer, their expected service life increases.

If I'm selling a car or truck thats 90% used up, I should be getting a price equal to somewhere between 10% of its new and replacement costs to reflect the 10% utility remaining. A 10 year old car today isn't at half its expected lifespan yet, versus a 10 year old car 20-30 years ago was on its proverbial last legs as far as expected life span...

Accordingly, an item with far more usability remaining should sell for a higher cost.

I’m sitting here waiting at the dealer for an oil change (still under warranty) and then I’m gonna go home and play vidya while posting memes on my phone.

Vidya... is that like a take home electronic George Dubya? Do ya score points for correctly spelling things like nucular?

Seriously though, kids today are far FAR worse than any generation before. Talk to teachers about what they see. The disrespect and violence that happens is only exceeded by the coddling and lack of accountability. Safe spaces to avoid emotional triggering? Seriously? I feel like these last 2 generations need a serious butt kicking.

Every generation has a component of rebellion and free spirits, but what's happening today is something else altogether. I suppose that's one way to prevent another national draft is to, on the whole, be such blubbering useless wastes of space that you couldn't perform any function...

Maybe after gas drops back below a dollar a gallon, like when I was in high school.

Again... round here gas is in the low $2s... sometimes riding to the 2.50 range. Back in the late 80s to 90s it was in the upper .90s to 1.20s... account for rising minimum wage salaries.... it's about the same cost, except fuel mileage has doubled to tripled.

More affordable now than it ever was to be driving a car IMO.

 

[oldmansmonte]

I like to work smarter and not harder. Does that mean I'm lazy? I mean, if it doesn't make logical sense, then by all means don't. Not I sure I follow this logic.

Again, it depends on where you live. If it snows a lot where you live and real estate is expensive, having a rear wheel drive high hp car doesn't make a lot of sense because you need a place to store it 6 months out of the year.

kids are lazy and like to "work smarter, not harder". If something doesn't make logical sense, they aren't going to do it. Having a car you can't drive 1/2 the year and can't afford to store for 1/2 the year doesn't add up to them.

When life was simpler and housing was cheaper, maybe the numbers added up. When my wife is watching those House Hunters shows and they are looking at a $600K house with 1 garage and it needs work and think to myself "that is not living".

I never talked about G-body's specially or v8 RWD cars, just car culture in general. In fact the example I used was a FWD car.

 

[pontiacgp]

Now, end of service life is expected closer to 300k....

My son and some of his friends drive high end cars and the end of service is just before the warranty is up.

 

[-83MONTESS-]

Maybe it's just me but nearly everyone I know is into cars. The "damn technology" cliche is just a sad old man's argument. Sure it's true in some cases but by no means is it ruining life on earth....after all you just used it to post here. It's like people complaining that facebook is stealing their info WHILE THEY POST ABOUT IT ON FACEBOOK.

I think it comes down to money. When the generation I poked at above was younger they could still get "cool" cars for dirt cheap. I hear the stories all the time. My first car was a "insert cool old car/truck here" and I picked it up for $100. Nowadays you can't even touch a rusty rolling chassis of that same vehicle for under a couple grand. Don't even get me started on things like college that costs wayyyy more now than it did when they went....

With that said, what does that leave the kids of today to play with? A 20 year old Camry with 250k on it? I do agree that a lot of kids these days seem a little too dependent and that things like shop classes need to make a come back but don't blame the kids for that. If you want to point the blame somewhere look at the generation that raised them to start. Flame on

 

[Wageslave]

Even in the late 1990s, minimum wage was barely over $5/hr. Today, most areas its $10 to start a job. You might pay $3000 for an entry level vehicle... but that's the same as 1500 in 1998.

Keep in mind, the world has changed everywhere else too. Good luck trying to afford school after high school, much less owning and maintaining a vehicle during that time. A $10/hr job might be where jobs start at now, but you have to fight off people with college degrees to get one of them. Get a hospital bill without insurance - hope you enjoy years of crippling debt. God help you if you have a kid, I hope you enjoy selling your culo on the street corner to keep the light bill paid.

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If I'm selling a car or truck thats 90% used up, I should be getting a price equal to somewhere between 10% of its new and replacement costs to reflect the 10% utility remaining. A 10 year old car today isn't at half its expected lifespan yet, versus a 10 year old car 20-30 years ago was on its proverbial last legs as far as expected life span...

Accordingly, an item with far more usability remaining should sell for a higher cost.

Except there is a bottom out factor, that most vehicles never cross regardless of condition as long as the body is mostly in its original shape. If I wanted a Jeep Wrangler, I would expect to pay $4000 to $6000 whether it had a bad motor, rusted in half frame or completely destroyed/missing interior.

Other vehicles have lower minimums, but the more desirable the vehicle = the higher minimum cost.

Seriously though, kids today are far FAR worse than any generation before. Talk to teachers about what they see. The disrespect and violence that happens is only exceeded by the coddling and lack of accountability. Safe spaces to avoid emotional triggering? Seriously? I feel like these last 2 generations need a serious butt kicking.

Every generation has a component of rebellion and free spirits, but what's happening today is something else altogether. I suppose that's one way to prevent another national draft is to, on the whole, be such blubbering useless wastes of space that you couldn't perform any function....

I come from the millennial generation, and it has become almost comical how much people blame my generation and those after for all the ills of the world. The reason most kids are always nose down in a phone, and never want to interact with anybody is because of the real dangers involved. Think about all the fun stories about when you were a teenager, running around. How much of that fun would be considered a felony today. Okay, lets go flirt with some girls. Hope you don't find a crazy one. Get in a fight at school over something stupid, zero tolerance, suspended or expelled whether you were the one being hit or you were the one doing the hitting. There are almost no outlets for kids to be kids anymore. It's more like go to school so you can pass standardized tests, then once you are 18, good luck adulting with zero life skills.

And keep in mind, who do you think is in the military right now? Most of the baby boomers have aged out. It is those damn kids that keep the devil from your door.

 

[ck80]

Maybe it's just me but nearly everyone I know is into cars. The "damn technology" cliche is just a sad old man's argument. Sure it's true in some cases but by no means is it ruining life on earth....after all you just used it to post here. It's like people complaining that facebook is stealing their info WHILE THEY POST ABOUT IT ON FACEBOOK.

I think it comes down to money. When the generation I poked at above was younger they could still get "cool" cars for dirt cheap. I hear the stories all the time. My first car was a "insert cool old car/truck here" and I picked it up for $100. Nowadays you can't even touch a rusty rolling chassis of that same vehicle for under a couple grand. Don't even get me started on things like college that costs wayyyy more now than it did when they went....

With that said, what does that leave the kids of today to play with? A 20 year old Camry with 250k on it? I do agree that a lot of kids these days seem a little too dependent and that things like shop classes need to make a come back but don't blame the kids for that. If you want to point the blame somewhere look at the generation that raised them to start. Flame on

I picked up a 76 chevy silverado with title, no rust on it except the inner rocker to floor edge... couple smallish dents, came with 3 extra doors though. Does need the passenger fender. $250 with title.

Value of money adjusted to the late 70s or early 80s when you hear about $100 cars it's like paying... I dunno, $35 or $40.

There was only one generation in a 6 or 8 year window who got muscle cars for a couple hundred bucks. The rest always made do.

Expecting to get the cool collectable cars for what almost nobody else ever has sounds.... entitled.

Around here, you want a late 90s early 2000s fbody you can get a base model for $800 or so, up to $2500 if you want it ready to drive. Perfect engine swap fodder and not a camry.

 

[gbodytoys]

I don't think that there is a "most" here. Some younger people don't value having a car because they need to have one. They may live in an area where they don't need a vehicle to get to point A to B. Ride sharing apps, mass transit, etc...

My little brother who is 18 does not care about cars. He likes basketball, video games, and girls. A car is just a tool used to get him to those things. He does seem to acknowledge super cars, but rarely anything less than $100k.

 

[ck80]

Keep in mind, the world has changed everywhere else too. Good luck trying to afford school after high school, much less owning and maintaining a vehicle during that time. A $10/hr job might be where jobs start at now, but you have to fight off people with college degrees to get one of them. Get a hospital bill without insurance - hope you enjoy years of crippling debt. God help you if you have a kid, I hope you enjoy selling your culo on the street corner to keep the light bill paid.

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Except there is a bottom out factor, that most vehicles never cross regardless of condition as long as the body is mostly in its original shape. If I wanted a Jeep Wrangler, I would expect to pay $4000 to $6000 whether it had a bad motor, rusted in half frame or completely destroyed/missing interior.

Other vehicles have lower minimums, but the more desirable the vehicle = the higher minimum cost.



I come from the millennial generation, and it has become almost comical how much people blame my generation and those after for all the ills of the world. The reason most kids are always nose down in a phone, and never want to interact with anybody is because of the real dangers involved. Think about all the fun stories about when you were a teenager, running around. How much of that fun would be considered a felony today. Okay, lets go flirt with some girls. Hope you don't find a crazy one. Get in a fight at school over something stupid, zero tolerance, suspended or expelled whether you were the one being hit or you were the one doing the hitting. There are almost no outlets for kids to be kids anymore. It's more like go to school so you can pass standardized tests, then once you are 18, good luck adulting with zero life skills.

And keep in mind, who do you think is in the military right now? Most of the baby boomers have aged out. It is those damn kids that keep the devil from your door.

Every generation has had those problems. When I first went to college, income based payment wasn't a thing. Instead you had loans that couldn't be discharged in bankruptcy, AND, there was no reduced payment.

Can't afford it? Tough cookies, we're garnishing your wages, and taking your cars and houses for delinquency after going to court.

You don't have to deal with that. EVER.

Medical bills without insurance? Sure, but a bankruptcy fixes that, IF you choose to go without in the first place. I know plenty of people (not all mind you) who plead the arguments I hear here but have to get the latest iphones, or 120/mo cable TV package, xbox live gaming pkus internet packages...and all other kinds of "luxuries" the rest of the world has done without through history. Either you're so so poor without assets there's low income state provided care, or, you make it a higher priority. Even the Starbucks craze, or a lot of the food kids eat... man, spam as part of a meal to replace meat that was too expensive just ain't even a thing anymore, don't get me started on that.

(I do agree with base depreciation for certain makes and models... otherwise wed all love to have that aston martin and ferrari parked next to a Cummins diesel in the driveway. supply and demand, it's always been like that too, not just recently.)

Very very little of what we considered as was "fun" in my days in the 80s/90s is a felony today. In fact, I really can't think of one example?

And news flash.... crazy girls have been a thing as long as there have been girls. Not a new phenomenon. ; )

I forgot all the parks and fields were privatized and closed. We used to have 20 kids show up with one ball and play for hours. Maybe that's been made a felony too. Or bike riding. Or dropping $20 on a fishing license? Kids can be kids if they want. They just aren't interested unless it's new, trendy, and expensive.

FWIW, there's generations beyond the boomers in the military. Luckily, there's enough non-cry babies to support minimal staffing. Although, there IS a legitimate talent shortage and problem with fitness standards and new recruits vs earlier years...

 

[UNGN]

I like to work smarter and not harder. Does that mean I'm lazy? I mean, if it doesn't make logical sense, then by all means don't. Not I sure I follow this logic.

Cars have to connect on an emotional level and not on a logical level for someone to become a "car enthusiast". Emotions like "sentiment", "lust" "envy" etc.

Some level of mental illness helps, too - OCD, Attachment/abandonment/hoarding issues, etc.

Neither emotion nor mental illness is "logical".

 

[pontiacgp]

. The "damn technology" cliche is just a sad old man's argument.

you are mistaken, I know a few technicians who have quit working at dealerships due to the problems of trying to diagnose these new cars even with the best equipment. What seems to come in with a minor issue can end up with a repair bill thousands of dollars. One of my son's better half had the Land Rover Sport which had the problem of the car going into limp mode at any time for now reason at all and no check engine light would come on. They had to shut the car down and restart it after a few minutes. The dealer knew about the problem but had no fix for it so the car was dropped off at the dealer and left there. I know of two Jeep that the dealer took back cause the technicians could not find the cause of an electrical problem. I have a friend with a Vette that had an intermittent starting problem. The Vette was at the dealership for 4 months while they tried to figure out the issue.