New engine no start issue

[Buford T. JuSStice]

When you do get your new tank I suggest you clean the outside of it and cover it with KBS or something similar

When it came in (it was surprisingly fast from RockAuto) I covered up the hole on the top, degreased it with soap and water, then hit it with a chemical degreaser and further cleaned, sanded, and prepped it. Then I hit it with 3 coats of self-etching primer, 3 coats of sealer, and 3 coats of flat black paint, and before it goes up (probably Wednesday when I have my next day off) I'll coat the top with rubber undercoat (especially around the belt line) and then when it's strapped up, I'll hit the bottom with a generous coat as well, covering both the straps and the tank.

Unfortunately, the sending unit I ordered was wrong and come to find out from some threads here that they basically don't make new sending units for Wagons, so I cleaned up the old one with CLR (it was very light rust on the top and very little in only the bottom of the pickup tube) and then on the top I used that Rustoleum rust reformer goop that turns surface rust into a primed surface, making sure to cover up any way it could ingress into the tubes or the bottom of the top plate, then I protected everything I didn't want to paint, and simply painted the top the same way I painted the tank.

Also bought the tools necessary to install the tachometer... that might also come Wednesday. I figure I'll get everything lined up and hopefully next weekend it'll be cooler so I can try starting it again. I figure with how hot it was today and how hot it's supposed to be Wednesday, it'd be better to wait since I'm trying to solve an overheating issue.

 

[Buford T. JuSStice]

Went outside today, and after chasing down some minor leaks, got the car started up. Starting from scratch with the static timing and neutral idle speed.

So far so good, ran the engine for about half an hour and the temp stayed steady at around 190-210 while standing still inside a hot garage!

 

[pontiacgp]

since you are here to tell us the good news I assume you had the exhaust vented to the outside...🙂

 

[Buford T. JuSStice]

since you are here to tell us the good news I assume you had the exhaust vented to the outside...🙂

 

[Buford T. JuSStice]

Went outside after work to try and get the timing advance set... I'm running into a problem with it. At first the dang thing was at 34 BTDC at IDLE but it wasn't pinging. Shut the car off, got my adjustment allen key, and turned it in as much as possible. Never seemed to bottom out no matter how much I turned it counter-clockwise. However, it did improve from where it was, to being 13-14BTDC at idle, but as soon as the power comes on, it goes to about 40BTDC before it even reaches 2500RPM, but doesn't seem to climb above that (I cautiously ran it up to about 3500RPM just to make sure of this). The placard I got with the engine calls for 34 BTDC before 3400 RPM. I tried turning the screw in some more - and it DID seem to turn in - but it never changed from that. At this point, do I simply need to change the springs on the distributor weights, or does that only effect the advance curve?

For information, I have an MSD Streetfire Distributor and a Q-Jet carburetor. The vacuum advance is plugged into the vacuum outlet above the idle mixture adjustment screw on the driver's side. The distributor was brand new when I put it on my Firebird years ago, and got all of 0 miles on it when I realized that it wasn't the distributor that was the problem, since the engine was a boat anchor. How it managed to have so much advance, I don't know, but as far as I remember, I only brought it out maybe 4 turns from factory after reading the instructions on the back... though to be fair I bought it at a local parts store so you never know.

 

[64nailhead]

Went outside after work to try and get the timing advance set... I'm running into a problem with it. At first the dang thing was at 34 BTDC at IDLE but it wasn't pinging. Shut the car off, got my adjustment allen key, and turned it in as much as possible. Never seemed to bottom out no matter how much I turned it counter-clockwise. However, it did improve from where it was, to being 13-14BTDC at idle, but as soon as the power comes on, it goes to about 40BTDC before it even reaches 2500RPM, but doesn't seem to climb above that (I cautiously ran it up to about 3500RPM just to make sure of this). The placard I got with the engine calls for 34 BTDC before 3400 RPM. I tried turning the screw in some more - and it DID seem to turn in - but it never changed from that. At this point, do I simply need to change the springs on the distributor weights, or does that only effect the advance curve?

For information, I have an MSD Streetfire Distributor and a Q-Jet carburetor. The vacuum advance is plugged into the vacuum outlet above the idle mixture adjustment screw on the driver's side. The distributor was brand new when I put it on my Firebird years ago, and got all of 0 miles on it when I realized that it wasn't the distributor that was the problem, since the engine was a boat anchor. How it managed to have so much advance, I don't know, but as far as I remember, I only brought it out maybe 4 turns from factory after reading the instructions on the back... though to be fair I bought it at a local parts store so you never know.

Just read through this thread - yikes. It sounds like your trying to time the motor with the vacuum advance hooked up and functioning - if I'm wrong then let me know. But the placard is referring to the 'all in' timing to be set to 34 deg BTDC (this is the sum of the initial advance and mechanical advance) and 'all in' by 3400 rpm's implying that all of the mechanical advance is in by 3400 - have you confirmed this or no? And again, all of this is measured with the vacuum cannister unhooked and the vacuum source plugged.


===

I have to ask what was the resolution to the overheating? It couldn't have been the gas tank. And if you ever call BluePrint with a warranty issue, then never mention the 280 degree thing to them or you'll be 'on your own' I'm sure.

 

[Buford T. JuSStice]

I would assume that "all-in" would include both vacuum and mechanical advance combined, which is why I tried to set the timing advance with the vacuum hooked up rather than having the canister unhooked and the source plugged. I only set the initial static timing to the specified 13-14 BTDC with the canister unhooked and the source plugged in order to get a true reading. I could try to see what happens if I go with no vacuum advance though. If the result is 34 BTDC total timing, then what's the point of the vacuum advance in this application?

Here is the website specifications for the engine. The Placard I got (which is really just a set of cards detailing precautions, first start up procedures, and timing specifications) says 3400RPM but the website says 3500RPM. I'll go double check the placard real quick, but I'm pretty sure that's the only difference. Either way, they both say 34 BTDC with no mention of mechanical or vacuum advance.

 

[Buford T. JuSStice]

As far as the overheating issue goes, I went with one of those "accordion" style lower hoses that have a spring in them. It hasn't collapsed, and thus the coolant is flowing as it should. Even over this weekend, while running the engine for over half an hour in a garage that must have been all by itself over 110 degrees, it never exceeded 210 degrees, and there does not seem to be any serious effects (so far) of the initial overheating, probably because it only went above 260, and near 280 for less than a minute or so. It was the rate at which it was climbing, rather than the length of time it had been over temperature that really scared the hell out of me.

 

[Buford T. JuSStice]

In fact, today as I was working on trying to get the timing advance set, I couldn't help but notice that the temperature does climb much more slowly now than it did before. Of course, I was turning the car off frequently in order to unplug the vacuum canister on the distributor and adjust the screw. Perhaps tomorrow I'll see if the adjuster screw will bottom out at some point, see where that gets me, and then go from there.

 

[565bbchevy]

I would assume that "all-in" would include both vacuum and mechanical advance combined

• 34 degrees total at 3500 RPM is always your initial advance in your case 13-14 degrees plus what the mechanical advance(springs and weights) is which would need to be 20, this is all set with the vacuum advance being plugged once these are set then later you can dial in the best vacuum advance.