Engine Machine Work Prices

[64nailhead]

Dude, just run it. Still plenty of machine marks on the walls.

I agree with this 100%, especially considering your intended use and goals - those bores are fresh.

I'd pull the pistons and check rings and piston to wall clearance since the heads are off anyway. If the bearings look like the cylinder walls, then re-use them. You've mentioned changing cam bearings a couple of times - is there an issue with them? The reason cam bearings usually get changed is because the block machining process damages them - they rarely if ever need replacing in normal conditions.

Good luck

 

[MrSony]

I agree with this 100%, especially considering your intended use and goals - those bores are fresh.

I'd pull the pistons and check rings and piston to wall clearance since the heads are off anyway. If the bearings look like the cylinder walls, then re-use them. You've mentioned changing cam bearings a couple of times - is there an issue with them? The reason cam bearings usually get changed is because the block machining process damages them - they rarely if ever need replacing in normal conditions.

Good luck

It's mainly the front bearing that wears out in Buicks because of the oiling groove in the cam. His is already showing signs of wear. The replacement bearings are badass. Hardened, backgrooved, relocated dual feed holes, etc. All to help with Buick's less than satisfactory oiling.

 

[joesregalproject]

I agree with this 100%, especially considering your intended use and goals - those bores are fresh.

I'd pull the pistons and check rings and piston to wall clearance since the heads are off anyway. If the bearings look like the cylinder walls, then re-use them. You've mentioned changing cam bearings a couple of times - is there an issue with them? The reason cam bearings usually get changed is because the block machining process damages them - they rarely if ever need replacing in normal conditions.

Good luck

Thanks for the reply. The reason for change going the cam bearings is the front cam bearing (which is vital to oil psi on Buick engines) was kinda ugly. The others could probably be reused. But I posted pictures of them on the forum, and asked if I could reuse them, and about half of guys said to replace them, half said they were fine, so I just bought a full set with the intent on replacing all of them.

As long as I'm not the only one who thinks its okay to just swap out the cam bearings, inspect the main and rod bearings (replace only if necessary) and reassemble, I have no problem with that. That was all I thought needed done in the first place. It was when I went to the machine shop and this machinist started saying "well you gotta do blah blah blah $2500 worth of machine work or its a hack job" that I started getting confused on what really needed/should be done.

 

[MrSony]

Thanks for the reply. The reason for change going the cam bearings is the front cam bearing (which is vital to oil psi on Buick engines) was kinda ugly. The others could probably be reused. But I posted pictures of them on the forum, and asked if I could reuse them, and about half of guys said to replace them, half said they were fine, so I just bought a full set with the intent on replacing all of them.

As long as I'm not the only one who thinks its okay to just swap out the cam bearings, inspect the main and rod bearings (replace only if necessary) and reassemble, I have no problem with that. That was all I thought needed done in the first place. It was when I went to the machine shop and this machinist started saying "well you gotta do blah blah blah $2500 worth of machine work or its a hack job" that I started getting confused on what really needed/should be done.

He may mean well, but I don't really like the sound of that. Keep in mind, he has a buisiness, or at least works at a place where what you're doing is what he does everyday. He'll try to sell you on all this and that when it's really not necessary in your particular situation.

 

[joesregalproject]

He may mean well, but I don't really like the sound of that. Keep in mind, he has a buisiness, or at least works at a place where what you're doing is what he does everyday. He'll try to sell you on all this and that when it's really not necessary in your particular situation.

Yeah I totally get he has a business and has to make money by selling things. But I also didn't like how he was kinda pushing me into doing so much work on a running engine. I kept trying to reiterate to him "this engine runs as is" and "this is a budget build" and "this is a cruise night car, not a race car", and he still was insistent that the block be magged and shot peened, all the rods checked and reconditioned if necessary, the crank checked and polished at a minimum, and custom ground if he felt necessary. A few things he said just really made me feel like I was being fed a line of bullshit-

"If you are gonna change get the pistons you gotta balance the rotating assembly",
"If you don't bore it, you'll never have perfectly round cylinders",
"If you change the main bearings, even if the bearing clearance is in spec, you need to have to crank custom ground to match the new bearings"
"You have to degree the cam, even if it's not a super high performance engine"
"You can't use just any timing chain, you have to use (brand name) chains that run $200 or they will stretch within the first few hundred miles and the cam will be off"

Now I know just enough about machine work to be dangerous, auto body is my arena, but I know some of that was bullshit. There were a few other things I just didn't like. I think I said before, this shop has a decent reputation, but I've only used them a few times for brake rotors and they did a flywheel for me. I'm gonna check out this other shop tomorrow and tell them what I want done. I'll report back.

 

[MrSony]

Yeah I totally get he has a business and has to make money by selling things. But I also didn't like how he was kinda pushing me into doing so much work on a running engine. I kept trying to reiterate to him "this engine runs as is" and "this is a budget build" and "this is a cruise night car, not a race car", and he still was insistent that the block be magged and shot peened, all the rods checked and reconditioned if necessary, the crank checked and polished at a minimum, and custom ground if he felt necessary. A few things he said just really made me feel like I was being fed a line of bullshit-

"If you are gonna change get the pistons you gotta balance the rotating assembly",
"If you don't bore it, you'll never have perfectly round cylinders",
"If you change the main bearings, even if the bearing clearance is in spec, you need to have to crank custom ground to match the new bearings"
"You have to degree the cam, even if it's not a super high performance engine"
"You can't use just any timing chain, you have to use (brand name) chains that run $200 or they will stretch within the first few hundred miles and the cam will be off"

Now I know just enough about machine work to be dangerous, auto body is my arena, but I know some of that was bullshit. There were a few other things I just didn't like. I think I said before, this shop has a decent reputation, but I've only used them a few times for brake rotors and they did a flywheel for me. I'm gonna check out this other shop tomorrow and tell them what I want done. I'll report back.

He is kind of right about pistons making the balance of the rotating assembly off. I mean, yes, it will, but not nearly enough to ever notice on a stock street engine. Plus, you're keeping the stock ones (as far as I know), so that won't be a problem. The first time the engine was fired at the factory the cylinders weren't round. Mine aren't eather, but guess what, still have above 150psi on all cylinders. A good hone job can do wonders. You do NOT have to have the crank custom ground for new bearings. Can you? Yes. But there is no reason to unless it's damaged. Don't have to degree the cam either. can you? yes, but the factory would have to f*ck up pretty bad to have it off enough that the engine won't run. It's just a measure to make sure your cam matches what it should be spec wise. Timing chain thing is BS. All chains stretch over time. As the bearings get worn, they'll get looser anyway. I'm sure his words come from a place of knowledge, but it really sounds like he's trying to force ya into all this stuff you don't need to do at this point in time. I do wonder why you keep questioning shops and trying to get quotes... you already took the engine apart. Just do the reverse of that + new gaskets, some other bits, a cam, and you're good to go. If you have all the parts laid out it might take you a weekend. Might. Is it a time issue? You don't have to do everything all at once. Just do the shortblock, WD40 and bag it, come back to do the top end when you have time.

 

[lilbowtie]

You have to remember, if they are building the engine their reputation is on the line so they cross there t's and dot there i's. If they gave you a budget slap together and something failed you would be pissed and throwing him under the bus(bad rep). As stated you can buy a crate motor if your going that far. I have been putting budget builds together my entire life and racing them without problems. You need to put this engine together and decide how you want to do it. Your young, might need to buy a few tools but it will be money well spent. $200.00 for a timing chain - I can buy a bullet chain for 1/3rd of that. I have yet to have a cam not degree right. If bearing are within spec your good (plastic gauge) I have even polished my own crank(doesn't sound good)

 

[fleming442]

I have even polished my own crank

You know, if you want it done right, ya gotta do it yourself.

 

[joesregalproject]

I'm sure his words come from a place of knowledge, but it really sounds like he's trying to force ya into all this stuff you don't need to do at this point in time. I do wonder why you keep questioning shops and trying to get quotes...

I don't think he wasn't trying to totally deceive me, but I think he saw a young guy who (admittedly) doesn't know a whole lot about machine work and what is necessary and what isn't, and so he thought maybe he could sell some extra stuff even if I didn't really need it. Either way, if the guy tried to bullshit me once, what are the chances he'll try and do it again?

That's the reason I want to go talk to another machine shop, because I don't really feel like dealing with this guy anymore.

 

[MrSony]

I don't think he wasn't trying to totally deceive me, but I think he saw a young guy who (admittedly) doesn't know a whole lot about machine work and what is necessary and what isn't, and so he thought maybe he could sell some extra stuff even if I didn't really need it. Either way, if the guy tried to bullshit me once, what are the chances he'll try and do it again?

That's the reason I want to go talk to another machine shop, because I don't really feel like dealing with this guy anymore.

Why talk to a shop at all?